E: Engine Vincent pilgrim pump in comparison

Little Honda

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
From a discussion some days ago with a toolmaker, who regarded the Vincent pilgrim pump as "useless", I remembered a comment of PEI on the same subject many
years ago in form of a comparison of the known oil pumps of prominent motorcycle engines in a list, which he published somewhere. Regrettably, I forgot, when and
where I remembered it from. I did not find it in "TFS", "Motorcycle Engineering", "40 Years On" - Anybody out there, who knows better?
Wld like to answer accordingly to the toolmaker...
 

clevtrev

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
From a discussion some days ago with a toolmaker, who regarded the Vincent pilgrim pump as "useless", I remembered a comment of PEI on the same subject many
years ago in form of a comparison of the known oil pumps of prominent motorcycle engines in a list, which he published somewhere. Regrettably, I forgot, when and
where I remembered it from. I did not find it in "TFS", "Motorcycle Engineering", "40 Years On" - Anybody out there, who knows better?
Wld like to answer accordingly to the toolmaker...
Tell the guy, it`s funny how some bikes managed to do hundreds of thousand miles with that useless pump, 750,000 in one case, and it still sported the original timing side main bearing.
 

Marcus Bowden

VOC Hon. Overseas Representative
VOC Member
I'm on my third double start pump they don't last much more than 100k miles(especially if they only have s straight cut teeth) but also run a Honda pump just for camshaft gallery and the same MK2's have been going for over 300k miles but spindles changed a couple of times.
bananaman
 

passenger0_0

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
From a discussion some days ago with a toolmaker, who regarded the Vincent pilgrim pump as "useless", I remembered a comment of PEI on the same subject many
years ago in form of a comparison of the known oil pumps of prominent motorcycle engines in a list, which he published somewhere. Regrettably, I forgot, when and
where I remembered it from. I did not find it in "TFS", "Motorcycle Engineering", "40 Years On" - Anybody out there, who knows better?
Wld like to answer accordingly to the toolmaker...
No offense intended towards toolmakers however what makes you think this group are well qualified to comment on I.C. engine lubrication?
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Again I seem to remember that there was an article on the pump that seemed to answer the only problem I have encountered with the pump, that is wear on the teeth of the plunger. The article identified a supposed error in the teeth that was cured by relieving the ends of the run out of the tooth form by an undercut. of course I cant remember where I saw it.
The whole of the Vincent lubrication system is misunderstood, witness all the braided high pressure lines on some misguided builds:eek:. In fact the whole of pre japanese oiling systems are not understood, after struggling for hours to make a catch tray to sit under the twin and allow the exhausts to tuck in we realised what the ACU and organisers were actually asking for was "containment of half the oil and coolant capacity of the engine " I guess thats a teacup with a dry sump engine:rolleyes:.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
That mod was by Clevtrev who machines out the end of the teeth on the oil pump plunger. Regarding Marcus' comments re. straight cut teeth on the plunger when used with a twin start worm; of course they wear out. That is a total mismatch between the gear forms and any one who fits a twin start worm should ensure that they use the correct plunger. These are easily identified by the fact that the teeth are at an angle to the axis of the plunger. The additional use of Trev's mod is probably a good idea as well.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Come on Trev', Tell us all about it ??.
 

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greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The braided lines are for cosmetics only, no useful purpose at all.........The weakness of the oil system is within the timing chest. The oil feed to the crank is fine, but the distribution through the timing cover galleries and then to the spindles is where the problems lie. Especially the inlet cam lobes where the "Timed" squirt of oil to lubricate the follower is so minimal as to be near non existent. The front cylinder cam lobe and follower might survive by return oil down the pushrod tube, but on the rear cylinder the oil falls clear of the lobe, thus missing its target. Of course a lot of issues are caused by folk with little or no mechanical knowledge who assemble the chest area incorrectly, and this must be a major contributor of failures. Engines that have been assembled carefully and correctly, with cams and followers that are of the proper hardness do tend to survive well.
 
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