Vincent oil temperatures in real time

[Magnetoman]

It doen`t matter if your oil is synthetic, semi synthetic, or just plain ordinary, until it gets to operating temperature it`s not doing your engine any good. 180 degrees F is about normal for it to function as it is designed.

It's not so simple. In fact, it's so complex that I can't think of a good way of summarizing the information I have. It turns out I have a complete (as of about ten years ago) set of all SAE reports, books, documents, etc. that were available at that time on both lubricants and fuels. Just the set of documents describing (U.S.) Federal tests on oils is over 2" thick so is ~500 pages.

The title of one book is "Low Temperature Lubricant Rheology Measurement and Relevance to Engine Operation" (ASTM 1992). The reason that book was written is that an understanding of lubrication at low temperatures is important because some engines will be operated in Canada in January. Quoting from the Abstract of one of the chapters on the requirements for oils because they will be used at low temperatures: "The current lack of field problems related to low-temperature operation of both light- and heavy-duty vehicles provides one indication of the success with with SAE J300 meets this objective." (SAE J300 is one of the tests oils are subjected to).

The Absolute Viscosity (also called Dynamic Viscosity) of an oil is measured by the amount of force necessary to move one plate with respect to another at a given velocity with an oil film between them. As long as there is oil wear doesn't take place. This is why getting up to operating temperature isn't necessarily required to eliminate wear. Of course, high temperature reduces the viscosity which in turn significantly reduces the amount of power required to move the surfaces relative to each other.

 

[davidd]

It doen`t matter if your oil is synthetic, semi synthetic, or just plain ordinary, until it gets to operating temperature it`s not doing your engine any good. 180 degrees F is about normal for it to function as it is designed.

That has not been my experience. I have found that it works much better at low temperature and at seizure temperatures. However, it is only my experience and I can site no science. I certainly wish it had been around when I was riding bikes at -24F.

David

 

[redbloke1956]

It's not so simple. In fact, it's so complex that I can't think of a good way of summarizing the information I have. It turns out I have a complete (as of about ten years ago) set of all SAE reports, books, documents, etc. that were available at that time on both lubricants and fuels. Just the set of documents describing (U.S.) Federal tests on oils is over 2" thick so is ~500 pages.

The title of one book is "Low Temperature Lubricant Rheology Measurement and Relevance to Engine Operation" (ASTM 1992). The reason that book was written is that an understanding of lubrication at low temperatures is important because some engines will be operated in Canada in January. Quoting from the Abstract of one of the chapters on the requirements for oils because they will be used at low temperatures: "The current lack of field problems related to low-temperature operation of both light- and heavy-duty vehicles provides one indication of the success with with SAE J300 meets this objective." (SAE J300 is one of the tests oils are subjected to).

The Absolute Viscosity (also called Dynamic Viscosity) of an oil is measured by the amount of force necessary to move one plate with respect to another at a given velocity with an oil film between them. As long as there is oil wear doesn't take place. This is why getting up to operating temperature isn't necessarily required to eliminate wear. Of course, high temperature reduces the viscosity which in turn significantly reduces the amount of power required to move the surfaces relative to each other.

So Magneto man, what oil do you use on your road bike/s?
Thanks for the info too.

Kevin

 

[Magnetoman]

So Magneto man, what oil do you use on your road bike/s?

The subject of "the best oil" has to be near the top, if not at the top, of the list of topics with the most number of opinions posted about it on various on-line motorcycle forums over the years. Having studied a lot of actual literature on the topic (as opposed to on-line posts), personally I follow the dictum that any oil is way better than no oil. What this means in practice is I change the oil in my road bikes at intervals specified by the manufacturers and I use whatever name-brand oil I happen to grab at the auto parts store (e.g. Castrol, Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, ...). I probably buy Castrol more often than the others, but out of habit rather than anything else.

In my case I have too many motorcycles, so each of them gets ridden too few miles each year. The sad reality is I'm going to wear out before any of my motorcycles wears out because of any possible oil-related issue (other than no oil). However, even if I were going to live forever (which is still a hope I have...) I probably would continue to approach oil for my motorcycles in the same way because there are too many other things that are more likely to go seriously wrong with one of my road bikes before possible oil-related issues arise.

Having said the above, if I knew I was going to put 100,000 miles on a given modern motorcycle within a few years I probably would look again at the current technical literature of conventional vs. synthetic. But, mostly to see if the cost and convenience of possibly having to make fewer changes made it worth while to switch. None of my old British bikes is ever going to see 100,000 miles, and even the best of them likely would have to be rebuilt a few times between now and then, so my crystal ball sees Castrol (or Pennzoil, or ...) continuing on in their future.

 

[Kansas Bad Man]

SAE J 300 is not a oil, it is a index , it recognizes 11 viscosity weights of oil which do not contain a viscosity index improver or viscosity improver. Multi grade oils have viscosity improvers. To say that it does not make any difference in the wear and lubrication of your Vincent when started in the cold is only true if a proper index viscosity oil is used which is compatible with the ambient temperature. SAE j 300 oils which are poor choices as they are single grade oils, 0 , 5 , 1 0, 20, 30 , 40, 50, 60. A 50 wt oil will not pass the SAE viscosity test for 0 degree F. weather. The flow rate is to low to allow for lubrication , always remember the index must coincide with ambient temperature.


Cheers

 

[Magnetoman]

SAE J 300 is not a oil, it is a index ,... will not pass the SAE viscosity test for 0 degree F. weather....

Note that I started that post by saying the subject was too complex to make a simple summary of the over 1000 pages of technical information on oils I have on the bookshelf. In case it wasn't clear, I included that quote about J300 to show the subject of eliminating engine wear at low temperatures is of definite interest to the manufacturers of oil. However, the discussion I was adding to wasn't concerned with operating a Vincent when it's oF outside, but of lubrication of a Vincent's engine at normal riding temperatures if/when the oil itself doesn't reach the 180 oF where a thermostat maintains it in a typical water-cooled car.

 

[Kansas Bad Man]

There is no normal riding temperature for a Vincent, cool morning , hot afternoon, going up the great divide, going down the great divide,
out running a meter maid, out running a State Trooper.

Cheers

 

[Magnetoman]

... out running a State Trooper.

Thanks to radios State Troopers travel at the speed of light, so stories of outrunning them are more myth and ancient lore than they are reality.

 

[Kansas Bad Man]

John Singleton and his crew of scientist in 2009 took Albert Einstein to task by making radio waves go faster then the speed of light.

Cheers

 

[Magnetoman]

John Singleton and his crew of scientist in 2009 took Albert Einstein to task by making radio waves go faster then the speed of light.

No, it's not the case. A newspaper writer who didn't understand what he was writing about wrote an article that was picked up by every Star-Trek-loving warp-drive aficionado on the planet resulting in the web being littered with this junk. The laws of physics haven't changed so State Troopers are still limited to catching you at the speed of light.