UFM Assemblies

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The VOC Spares Company Limited

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UFM Assemblies FT1AS. Oil Tank FT14/1AS.
 

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Simon Dinsdale

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Are they assigned a number and stamped?

(Website shows out of stock.)
Issuing frame numbers in the UK is tricky as the UK registration authority (DVLA) takes the frame number as the vehicles identity and links the frame number to the registration. The engine number is recorded as well, but engines can be swapped, and so its the frame number that is important.
In the UK if a vehicle is over 25 years old it will qualify a historic taxation class and so is free to tax for road use. The DVLA take the 25 years from the proven age of the frame and engine via their numbers etc. Hence the reason for the checks when issuing VOC dating certificates.
Any new UFM can be issued with a new frame number which follows RE##### (yes RE) . In the UK it would not be possible to register a Vincent with the DVLA with a new UFM for historic tax class as it's classed as a brand new frame and so you would be looking at Q plate if your lucky. You may need to pass modern type approval etc and at the worst you could have a bike that could not be registered for road use in UK.
Of course there are some owners who may chance their luck with a box of number stamp but they usually get found out.

Simon
 

Peter Holmes

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I will very gingerly put my head above the parapet, what was the point of manufacturing complete UFMs if we end up with a machine that cannot be used on British roads, and is presumedly only of any use for museum display purposes, could not the RFM number be used to determine the age of the machine and the UFM just stamped with the type designation but not a number that matches the RFM. With the Vincent factory closing its doors 63 years ago, here is a hypothetical question, if there was a stash of UFMs left over from those bygone days, not such a daft thought as there were some factory original parts for sale at this years annual rally, would those UFMs qualify for the DVLA 25 year rule even though they were unstamped, and then if they were stamped what numbers could be used. This is all very relevant to me as I had a pretty serious crash about 10 years ago and my original headstock casting was wrecked with the bearing housings ovaled and cracked, I managed to purchase a replacement UFM complete from Ron Kemp, I decided to retain the factory stampings on the replacement but had a small aluminium plate stamped up with my existing numbers and just araldited the little plate over the existing number, no filing or restamping took place.
It might be possible to reinstate my original UFM at some point if the bearing housings can be repaired a little and then machined to accept taper roller bearings, something for me to consider.

I can of course see there could be problem with indiscriminately stamping up new UFMs with existing numbers, no one wants a situation whereby there is more than one machine displaying the same frame numbers, but in a case like mine I would have been more than happy to hand my damaged headlug casting into the Spares Club in exchange for a replacement casting stamped up with the correct number, perhaps with an additional feature to distinguish from an original part if that is deemed important, no one is trying hoodwink anyone here, we are not trying to make £20K Comets into £658K Black Lightnings, we are just trying to keep our beloved steeds on the roads where they should be, not in museums.
 

Simon Dinsdale

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The DVLA will allow you to replace a damaged frame (UFM) for a new one and transfer the frame number, but only if the bike is already registered with them and you prove to them you have the genuine damaged item and that the new one is an exact replacement. I don't know what exactly is involved as its not something I have ever done. Then there is the question of how will potential purchasers view the bike if you ever sold it?

As for a genuine headstock with no number. The DVLA and VOC identify and date a UFM by the frame number stamped on the headstock. No number makes it difficulty to prove the identity and thus the age. The DVLA may issue frame number in the format of DVLAS######## but that is their decision.

The DVLA rules are constantly been tightened up. They are aware that there is fraudlant activity to try and gain registrations.
 
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Dinny

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Soon there will be more Vincents in existence than were ever made and the line has been crossed with producing new machines. Does it dilute the brand, I'm not sure but we live in a world where you can build a new Spitfire and as long as you have the original data plate (or providence back to the data plate) then the CAA will allow you to register it as the original serial number.

Crazy times, I remember in the 80's it was impossible to buy a twin engine or crankcases, now they just come off the shelf...

My view is, if these parts are produced then they will at some point end up stamped as originals by someone, somewhere and it will be hard to identify whats original in another 20 years.

Mark
 

Chris Launders

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I'm afraid in another twenty years they will probably be worthless and no one will care what's original, we won't be able to use them, they'll only be museum pieces, I hope not but that's the way things are going.
Aside from that I cannot see what's wrong with having new UFM's RFM's and crankcases, everything else could be replaced and no one would bat an eyelid.
I myself have a replica bike, the owners club know it's a replica and are quite happy with it. the machine registrar has a record of it's frame and engine numbers and registration, I always freely admit to it being a replica when discussing it, thus helping prevent it ever being passed off as genuine.

Chris.
 

greg brillus

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I see no reason why new parts cannot be stamped with numbers that follow on from the last of the factory records. Even if new parts are supplied, there is never going to be enough made and put on the roads that will be of any major impact on total existing Vincent numbers, how many originals got broken up for parts from wrecks, turned into Norvin's, Egli's, speedway racing sidecars and so on. Not indifferent to new Manx's bought and their engines used in Cooper type cars..........well the frames for Norvins and similar Hybrids had to come from somewhere. There is too much hype and drama about all these numbers. Anyone wanting to re-stamp parts to create a fake machine are really kidding themselves these days, and there are few who would actually possess the correct original font type letter/number stamps to make them look totally authentic anyway. Modern stamp fonts are very plain, and easily recognizable. In the near future I wish to build another twin using new cases and most likely a new upper and rear frames. I have no desire to stamp them with numbers that are in the mix of the originals, but would like them to at least simulate the originals.......Is this going to be possible..........Remember I live in Australia, so our rules are strict, but I don't think they are as restrictive as yours.
 

Dinny

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I do not want to appear negative about producing replicas as long as that is what they remain, my issue is when a modern part is stamped as an original and passed off as such to an unknowing buyer.

My Series A has a replacement RFM with no number and that is how it shall stay. I have the original front frame so it's not an issue to me to register it when I get the damn thing finished... If people like Neal V did not produce these parts then I would be stuck with a bike that has no rear end. I would rather fit replica parts to complete the project and get it on the road than to have it sit under a bench for another 50 years.

At least it's now on top of the bench and may well run after collecting dust for who knows how long.

Mark
 

Simon Dinsdale

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VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Greg
The problem is if you built your replica with a brand new engine & UFM in the U.K. the DVLA (UK registration authority) would not allow you to register it for road use. They would consider it a brand new bike and so it would have to pass modern safety regulations and emissions which is something a Vincent couldn't do today. Something like one of the series A twins made in Australia would be impossible to register for use on the road in U.K. The authorities would not allow it.
Original factory built bikes have to be proven to be of a certain age before they can be registered and used and are then classed as historic. Hence the reason the numbers are important as they help authenticate a bike is "historic" and so the reverse side is the temptation for owners to try and fudge the numbers so they can register & use a bike. Because of this there are quite a few replica engines in U.K. that their owners are passing off as the real thing and replica frames will just make it worst.
Of course this is the situation in U.K. Other countries will be different with some even worst. I believe the rules are even stricter in Germany.
 
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