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Twin starts but won't run

Howard

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Help!!!!!!!!

I've got my Egli in one piece after a long layoff.

I've run it a few times in 5 mile stints to sort a few adjustments for MoT. I had various problems to sort out, but the most annoying was the ignition kept playing up. Running retarded, then advanced after adjustment, and nomatter how careful I was, it was never right - actually I lie - I was so chuffed I'd set it finally, that I booked the MoT, when the MoT day came it wouldn't start, and I suspect the timing had slipped again on my test run.

The ignition was a Jolly Thresher twin points setup, that I'd modified back to the original ATD, because the Norton setup gave me the wrong advance.

Having decided the system was a bit long in the tooth I decided to swap for a Pazon system. I've bought a trigger, rotor and "box of tricks" and built it in the JT housing.

The bike is loathe to start, when it does (1 start in 5 kicks) it runs for a secondish, sounds right, runs on both cylinders, then stops. One time I kept it running by holding down one of the ticklers (Concentric mark 2) and after a minute it was so hot that I burned my finger on the end of the silencer. I've never needed chokes, probably too rich, but I prefer that to too weak.

The Pazon is timed spot on to both dots, on the right cylinders at 38 degrees before (definitely before) TDC. The magnets are the right way round, and the trigger wires are correct. I'm told the 2 12V coils would be better as 6V, but I haven't had the new coils delivered yet.

I have this horrible feeling I've got tunnel vision, so I'm not going to say what I think the problem is in case I start someone on the wrong track. Don't just think ignition, anything is possible.

Help!!!!!!! I want to ride it again, and I'm not getting any closer.

H
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Sounds like, and is consistent with, a fuel blockage. Or fuel dried out blocking the pilot system, "after a long layoff".
 

Len Matthews

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Ticklers on Mk2 Concentrics? I don't think so! Are all these after market ignition systems really worth while? Dear old Joe Lucas's mags can't be all that bad considering how old most of them are. Having one professionally overhauled is probably a cheaper option and they don't need an external power source.
 

Howard

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Sounds like, and is consistent with, a fuel blockage. Or fuel dried out blocking the pilot system, "after a long layoff".

Tom, Yes it does, but it isn't. I tried that. I have tried loads of things, but I don't want to put anyone on the wrong track with my ideas.

Len, Sorry, Mk 1 concentrics, I hit a wrong key.
I gave up on mags in the 70s, my KVF gave up the ghost a long way from home, then when it was "professionally overhauled" the engine was a pig to start, leading to great embarrassment at a Riders' Rally, so I went for coil to suit my feeble leg muscles.

H
 

van drenth

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
It sounds to me that your ignition timing is far to advance. I run one twin plug Pazon and this on is set at zero TDC, the unit it self has a build in advance curve. So when you time at 38 Degree BTDC and the advance comes in than i can understand that your exhaust get red hot. Result will be holed pistons. PLS check all again.

Regards, Van Drenth JC
 

Pete Appleton

VOC Hon. Editor
VOC Member
VOC Forum Website Administrator
Timing

I run one twin plug Pazon and this on is set at zero TDC, the unit it self has a build in advance curve. So when you time at 38 Degree BTDC and the advance comes in than i can understand that your exhaust get red hot. Result will be holed pistons. PLS check all again.

Regards, Van Drenth JC

You are both right. There are two Pazon systems. The analogue system, the Sure Fire, is set at the full advance position whilst the digital system, the Smart Fire, is set at TDC. I am hoping that Howard has the Sure Fire.

Many of the electronic ignition system problems that I have seen have been caused by HT interference crossing over to the two pickup wires. It is very tempting to neatly cable tie the pickup wires alongside the HT leads. This is a bad idea. On my bike, the ignition wiring goes along the bottom of the engine to be as far away from the HT as possible.

For the interested, the full installation instructions are on the Pazon website.

Pete
 

clevtrev

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Help!!!!!!!!

I've got my Egli in one piece after a long layoff.

I've run it a few times in 5 mile stints to sort a few adjustments for MoT. I had various problems to sort out, but the most annoying was the ignition kept playing up. Running retarded, then advanced after adjustment, and nomatter how careful I was, it was never right - actually I lie - I was so chuffed I'd set it finally, that I booked the MoT, when the MoT day came it wouldn't start, and I suspect the timing had slipped again on my test run.

The ignition was a Jolly Thresher twin points setup, that I'd modified back to the original ATD, because the Norton setup gave me the wrong advance.

Having decided the system was a bit long in the tooth I decided to swap for a Pazon system. I've bought a trigger, rotor and "box of tricks" and built it in the JT housing.

The bike is loathe to start, when it does (1 start in 5 kicks) it runs for a secondish, sounds right, runs on both cylinders, then stops. One time I kept it running by holding down one of the ticklers (Concentric mark 2) and after a minute it was so hot that I burned my finger on the end of the silencer. I've never needed chokes, probably too rich, but I prefer that to too weak.

The Pazon is timed spot on to both dots, on the right cylinders at 38 degrees before (definitely before) TDC. The magnets are the right way round, and the trigger wires are correct. I'm told the 2 12V coils would be better as 6V, but I haven't had the new coils delivered yet.

I have this horrible feeling I've got tunnel vision, so I'm not going to say what I think the problem is in case I start someone on the wrong track. Don't just think ignition, anything is possible.

Help!!!!!!! I want to ride it again, and I'm not getting any closer.

H

Sounds as if the float levels are low.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Hello Howard, Bit of a long shot but you didn't say if you was wetting the plugs, My old racer was off the road for 2 1/2 years and I had trouble, the ign', carb's,and valve timing was the same and yet it was not the same bike !!. The petrol you buy now is not like it was 2yrs ago. They say don't use supermarket petrol, and now I only use high octane unleaded. I now use B5ES plugs and 34 degrees advance.I know the plugs are a bit soft but it seems to like it. I have changed the carb's to 28mm mk1s from TTs but I don't think that was the trouble and the engine don't smoke, It now runs like a clock, O K big ben !!. Have you drained the tank, I didn't bother but I think I should have. Good Luck Bill.
 

Howard

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Van / Pete, system is Sure Fire analogue timed BTDC as instructions.

Trev, I agree, especially when I'd modded the float height as per a Vincent website, to make the carbs work better. Fortunately I'm old enough to see problems and I only modded a spare set of float bowls, and the problem is the same on both.

Hi Bill, I forgot to say the plugs are wet. I'm using unleaded with Halfords octain booster. Yes I drained the tank. 34 degrees advance is interesting, I'll look at that if the new coils don't work (when they arrive).

Thanks all, nice to see comments other than ignition, I was worried I was looking in the wrong place.

H
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Hello Howard, My carbs were a load of bits, did the mods like you. Not easy, Messed up one of the float bowls !! In the end to get it right Needles on weekest and hand cut slides 3 1/2 to 4 ish with 30 idle jets, goes like stink now and it's not run in yet !!. Have you seen the add from Amals in the Vintage mag, They do adjustable floats ! and they say they are now resistant to modern ethanol based fuels ,which means ours are not ? May be your float needles are sticking ?, Some are not good with the new petrol, See www.amalcarb.co.uk Cheers Bill.
 
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