E: Engine Twin oil pump fitting

oexing

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Steve,
seems you got a seizure on the sleeve by bashing it in too tight. You may be able to polish the i.d. of the sleeve at that place for the plunger to get free. As I wrote above I´d never fit a sleeve by press fit, ONLY easy push fit. The sleeve is not necessarily bent but the bore slightly tapered and too tight anyway, so better lap that sleeve in the engine bore till it will be fully home.
Oil pressure is not really concerned with a bit of a looser fit, no oil pressure in an all roller engine at all. Many Vincents are run with knackered oil pumps, no big troubles from that it seems, not looking at wet sumping of course.

Vic
 

Bill Thomas

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I think you will still need a straight reamer, They are not a lot of money, Tracy tools , Maybe ?.
To make sure the cases are OK.
Be very careful, They are very sharp, You don't want it to dig in, That's why I blunted mine off a nats with wet and dry paper, Used wet, It's got go in very straight !, And Gentle !,
I did mine a bit at a time, I didn't think it was good to just wind it in all the way, If it didn't need it.
Then try and find the tight spot of plunger in sleeve while it is your hand,
It will show up as a Bright spot where it's tight,
Maybe use a bit of fine wet and dry paper on a wood stick ?.
Good Luck.
If you manage to free it off, You can give a good clean before it goes back, You don't want bad stuff in there which will wear it out.
 

Bill Thomas

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Be careful with the threaded end of the sleeve, If you are rough with it, Turning it , The end of the sleeve could unscrew !.
 

SteveO

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Thank you both for your advice and best wishes. I only wish I had asked on here when I first realised it was tight before going ahead. Not having worked on a Vincent before it's a bit difficult to gauge what is "tight" and what is "too tight". One persons push fit may be anothers "light tap". In my defence it was hard getting the old sleeve out, so I half expected the new one to be difficult. I'll know better next time (not that there will be a next time hopefully!). I was also a bit wary of the sleeve being loose and turning blocking the holes, but of course it's held by the OP36. The end of the sleeve is loose, I will tighten and lock before trying to insert it again.
 

Bill Thomas

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The plunger has to be nice and free or the teeth will wear out too soon.
OP36, As Tatty and me have said, Must not be too long and bind up in the groove, When fully tight !.
The Brass end cap that screws in after the sleeve is in, Holds the sleeve tight on it's flange.
Cheers Bill.
 

Bill Thomas

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I think most of us have had the same trouble as you :) , That's how we learn, These Vincent's are full of tricks to catch us out, Just look at the wheel spindle nuts, Just asking for some poor sod to put a spanner on them !!!!!.
There should be a big sign, Only turn the Tommy Bar !.
 

greg brillus

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One issue you can have when passing a 1" ream up the bore if the mains are in, the reamer can hit the edge of the outer race, and this will blunt the reamer. I've had to get up the bore with a small grinding stone and take a whisker off the bearing race..........All a complete bugger, and hindsight is a great thing after the fact. Once the hole is true and round with no burs, the sleeve should push in with the cases cold. I use a good coating of that brown loctite number 3 which is a non hardening sealant ideal for oil pump and water pump installations. I have found if the sleeve is very tight to withdraw, you are better off to use some threaded rod and make a puller that winds the sleeve out, as a slide hammer is too brutal, you can literally pull the thread out of the far end of the pump, it is only a threaded alloy plug after all. If your plunger will not easily fit to the new sleeve, then you have likely bent the sleeve. Any drastic changes to the bore of the sleeve and/or the plunger will likely result in the engine wet sumping. I have seen it done by a so called expert with the end result being that the bike would loose the entire contents of the oil tank into the crankcases in less than a week. We had to completely strip the engine and start again.........This was because the pump bore in the cases was undersized about 0.002" this on a new set of cases. Not fun to fix at all........... Good luck with it.
 

Cyborg

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I don’t want to rain on your parade, but in those first two photos you posted, it looks like the sleeve caught something on the way in. (Outer race of the small bearing?) There is a long score mark that goes from the far end of the pump up to the opening for the gear. Hard to tell from the photo, but to me that looks like it’s deep enough to cause the pump to bind,
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Cyborg

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Ps... I just looked in a box with a couple of scrap pumps that came with a pile of other bits. Both sleeves have similar score marks. I starting to think that dressing that outer race should be standard operating procedure (or at least verifying its out of the way) when it is initially installed. Installing the sleeve first would work, but you would still run the risk of the sleeve hanging up on the outer race (on future removal) if it wasn’t attended to.
 

greg brillus

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It's generally the inner large race that hits, unless the outer one has moved and quite possible. Often the damage is done removing the old sleeve as it can get nicks on it from removing the crank and/or if something has been up the inlet port in the cases. This later one is the bad one, if the case is scored from there outward, this will cause oil to leak past the outside of the sleeve. I generally remove the high spots in the case bore and using a nice coating of non hardening sealant seems to stop any further leakage. Another spot that goes unnoticed, is the lower timing cover screw the one next rearward from the one with the locating dowel........If too long a cover screw is wound right to the bottom of this hole, it will punch through into the oil pump bore and damage the sleeve, again causing a score in the bore..........Removing and changing oil pumps can be fraught with danger i'm afraid............o_O ........
 
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