C: Clutch Twin Clutch Drag

john998

john998

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Hello, In previous posts I have said that in all my battles with the clutch the primary clutch has proved innocent. The dragging after load has been due to the centralising plungers being short due to worn Linings on the shoes and drum wear. Have made up longer plungers and stronger springs and now have a perfect clutch after 55 years of trying. John.
 
greg brillus

greg brillus

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Interesting find on the clutch drag issue.........The clutch in my Rapide has always worked extremely well........But in preparation for an up and coming rally in Tasmania in the later half of March this year, I thought I might attend to a couple of minor oil leaks that had been annoying me for a while........One was at the front of the primary cover, so I carefully disassembled everything and fixed the leak, plus checked everything else whilst in that area........After assembly I noticed the clutch was dragging a little, not crunching into gear, but the shift through the gears was not as smooth as it had been.......plus the usual symptom of the kickstart lever being inconsistant to push down with the clutch lever held back at the bars.........After checking it a couple of times, it was evident that the outer pilot clutch was not the culprit........So I disassembled it further today, and all looked ok, but after I removed the shoes and the C13 assembly........ I noticed that the C10 link rods were quite tight where they sandwitch within the plates of the C13........I'm pretty sure when I restored the bike back in 2015 that I renewed these 2 links and they are almost too snug a fit into the C13.........I then removed the 9 C14 pins/wire assembly, cleaned and buffed all the pins, lightly linished off the sides of these 2 link rods so they were no longer so tight a fit........used a very light smear of antiseize in the bores of these links, then reassembled the whole lot..........So what also happens there is when you tighten the 9 406 c/sunk screws very tight, this can actually squeeze tight the 2 discs of the C13 thus closing up the gap for the links to rotate freely........Now the clutch free's off everytime and is back to its perfect self again....... As we now know, it pays to "Not" have all the new or refurbished components to be too tight/snug a fit as this can cause unexpected issues when you feel that all should be ok......All good fun.
 
P

paw99

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greg brillus said:
Interesting find on the clutch drag issue.........The clutch in my Rapide has always worked extremely well........But in preparation for an up and coming rally in Tasmania in the later half of March this year, I thought I might attend to a couple of minor oil leaks that had been annoying me for a while........One was at the front of the primary cover, so I carefully disassembled everything and fixed the leak, plus checked everything else whilst in that area........After assembly I noticed the clutch was dragging a little, not crunching into gear, but the shift through the gears was not as smooth as it had been.......plus the usual symptom of the kickstart lever being inconsistant to push down with the clutch lever held back at the bars.........After checking it a couple of times, it was evident that the outer pilot clutch was not the culprit........So I disassembled it further today, and all looked ok, but after I removed the shoes and the C13 assembly........ I noticed that the C10 link rods were quite tight where they sandwitch within the plates of the C13........I'm pretty sure when I restored the bike back in 2015 that I renewed these 2 links and they are almost too snug a fit into the C13.........I then removed the 9 C14 pins/wire assembly, cleaned and buffed all the pins, lightly linished off the sides of these 2 link rods so they were no longer so tight a fit........used a very light smear of antiseize in the bores of these links, then reassembled the whole lot..........So what also happens there is when you tighten the 9 406 c/sunk screws very tight, this can actually squeeze tight the 2 discs of the C13 thus closing up the gap for the links to rotate freely........Now the clutch free's off everytime and is back to its perfect self again....... As we now know, it pays to "Not" have all the new or refurbished components to be too tight/snug a fit as this can cause unexpected issues when you feel that all should be ok......All good fun.
Click to expand...
Thanks Greg, yet another possible cause of this odd symptom. I went the same route from fixing primary chaincase leak. Then same symptom, I found some mainshaft runout after I had changed various clutch bits. Not yet resolved, and I think my links are quite loose. Latest suspect is plunger housing sticking on inside of C13 rear disc, when clutch pushrod action moves C13 forward slightly, as shoes centralise fine when clutch released. Now have shoes back with bushed pivot holes to limit shoe movement sideways. More when sorted!
Peter
 
Bill Thomas

Bill Thomas

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Peter, Don't know if you have seen, Some of us put Cam follower shims ?,
Between the back of the inner steel plate on 6 of the 9 pins to stop the plate rubbing on the pivots,
To stop the marks / Drag ?.
Cheers Bill.
 
Bill Thomas

Bill Thomas

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No Peter , Didn't think it would , Did it to mine years ago,
I like John's idea of stronger springing in the shoes , To keep the shoes away from the drum ?,
Must try that , Next time I am in there .
I did a friends clutch some years ago, And the strong spring should have been the weak ,
Same the other way, I didn't have too much time to play, So left it,
But on the road it worked OK,
Trouble is My clutches are not too bad , Just get a bit upset when hot,
Like me !.
There is always other jobs that are more important, And each time you go in there ,
You risk nicking the seal in the big chain wheel !,
Would be nice to have a NEW Bike !.
 
P

paw99

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Bill Thomas said:
No Peter , Didn't think it would , Did it to mine years ago,
I like John's idea of stronger springing in the shoes , To keep the shoes away from the drum ?,
Must try that , Next time I am in there .
I did a friends clutch some years ago, And the strong spring should have been the weak ,
Same the other way, I didn't have too much time to play, So left it,
But on the road it worked OK,
Trouble is My clutches are not too bad , Just get a bit upset when hot,
Like me !.
There is always other jobs that are more important, And each time you go in there ,
You risk nicking the seal in the big chain wheel !,
Would be nice to have a NEW Bike !.
Click to expand...
My main clue at present is that the shoes centralise well when clutch lever released, but will not do so if clutch lever held in. I conclude that this is due to force applied from pushrod and pulling C13 to the left.
Either (a) nose of plungers is fouling inside of C13's back ring (see previous photos, not too clear), or (b) slight runout of C20 is pushing C13 squiffy when it hits C20 flange, pinching it in nice snug new C20 and C13.
Checking (a) first, (b) later if have to!
Cheers Peter
 
Bill Thomas

Bill Thomas

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I have always thought it was the shoes clacking about ,
Plus a bit of drum runout,
It all mounts up ?, Bit Of play here and bit of play there, As Greg says , You don't want bits too tight !,
I have put tubing on the pins where they contact the plungers,
Short bits of the tube that goes over 9 pins !,
Which has made it a lot better , Plus Eddy's tool for shoe springs,
Just not perfect all the time !, Like me .
 
P

paw99

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Bill Thomas said:
I have always thought it was the shoes clacking about ,
Plus a bit of drum runout,
It all mounts up ?, Bit Of play here and bit of play there, As Greg says , You don't want bits too tight !,
I have put tubing on the pins where they contact the plungers,
Short bits of the tube that goes over 9 pins !,
Which has made it a lot better , Plus Eddy's tool for shoe springs,
Just not perfect all the time !, Like me .
Click to expand...
Is that tube the same as longer plungers? Or just to take up wear on pins? Again, mine centralises very well except when end force applied by pulling clutch lever. Maughan's have just bushed my shoe pivot holes, and adjusted plungers/springs, so we'll see how that goes
Thanks
Peter
 
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