PR: Proprietary Items Tin Ware Restoration

brian gains

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I have no problem with, and actually prefer. patinated machines, However, after a particularly aggressive dousing of ethanol on the tank paintwork I am considering a respray of all the tin ware.

This brings me to the mudguards which although sprayed black are not the valanced touring type and are not Birmabrite but mild steel, I guess not original and I've no idea what they were off but the radius follows the wheel and is far better than some pattern parts I've seen.

And finally to the point, the front mudguard lip has been dinged and dimpled some time before I took ownership, would it be possible for an english wheel to remove the ding or should I make up a 1" thick profiled buck / former in ply and try and tap it out. The reason I ask is part of the ding has quite a sharp crease and I don't know what kind or pressure an english wheel could apply to fully remove this.If it is unlikely that this method would remove the ding completely I may as well tap it out with dubious outcome and finish with a spread of filler, bleh! Does anyone have experience with limitations of an english wheel.
 

chankly bore

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Non-VOC Member
I've seen clever people restoring Morris Minor panels. Worth exploring the ether to watch techniques. One thing I learned is not to just bash/hammer things- it can cause them to grow.
 

ClassicBiker

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VOC Member
My father was a sheet metal model maker. One trick he taught for repairing dents where the metal had been stretched, particularly good when the item had a lot of shape to it or strength like a mud guard, was to heat the affected area with an acetylene torch red hot and drive the metal from back side while support the front side with a dolly. This will shrink the metal and create a flat spot that has plenty of metal to shape back the original direction without the risk of splitting it because it has become to thin.
Doing this on flat panels will work as well, but if you don't get all the metal driven back it may 'oil can' which is that it pops back and forth not knowing which way to be. So you have to reheat and do it some more.
Depending on the size of the dimple, access to it, and the amount of stretch already present a set of welding clamps like this
1575641850811.png
with the feet removed and a stack of washers brazed to one side and a suitably sized ball bearing on the other side will allow you to raise the dimple little by little. Then you dress back the raised metal with a file. This method will definitely thin the material though. The benefit is it is quicker and quieter than using pick hammer.
1575642204266.png

Steven
 

brian gains

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VOC Member
interesting stuff
Scottish SO, Tom Gaynor, has similar guards and feels they were a works option. https://www.vincentownersclub.co.uk/threads/rare-steel-mudguards.2270/ He mentions it in other threads, I searched for "guards" and Tom's name.
co incidentally my Comet is a '51 also.
In another lifetime I worked in a body shop for 3-4 years , but as a paint sprayer but do now recall heating panels with an acetylene torch then dousing with a wet rag to shrink where they had been stretched. One of the old boys would also recount how back in the day bodies were brush painted with enamel , flatted and polished, leaded dings and joints but I don't recall any descriptions of actual coach building where english wheels would nave been used. I was more interested in his tales of beach racing Scotts on Jersey.
 

ClassicBiker

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
That's another option. Rather than using bondo to fill in minor dings or dents, lead. Poor preparation and extreme cold can cause bondo (plastic body fillers) to separate from the panel, lead is unlikely to to do so. Just don't sand the leaded area or vacuum up the lead that is removed from the panel. Only use a file and sweep it up. Lead dust from sanding and what a vacuum's exhaust kicks up is more likely to find its way into you and that isn't good.
Anywhere that body panels met and neither of the panels were removable used to be leaded to give a smooth look. My dad used to say that the guys who did that job on a production line were real artists. They could get the joint covered and smoothed over so well and so fast and that barely any dressing was required, all while the line moved.
Steven
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I have often taken out dents in mudguards with the English wheel and it is great at doing that. The big problems is if the dent is near the edge of the mudguard where the metal is crimped. The wide wheels can't get near enough to the edge to deal with the dent. Also, the arc of the mudguard tends to fowl the English wheel as the wheel is designed to do larger panels. Some narrow lower wheels could be turned up, but that is another project. Dents in the center are fine.

Bullseye picks are also good for small dent removal. You can make many different heads and they hit exactly where you aim.


David
 

John Appleton

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I have no problem with, and actually prefer. patinated machines, However, after a particularly aggressive dousing of ethanol on the tank paintwork I am considering a respray of all the tin ware.

This brings me to the mudguards which although sprayed black are not the valanced touring type and are not Birmabrite but mild steel, I guess not original and I've no idea what they were off but the radius follows the wheel and is far better than some pattern parts I've seen.

And finally to the point, the front mudguard lip has been dinged and dimpled some time before I took ownership, would it be possible for an english wheel to remove the ding or should I make up a 1" thick profiled buck / former in ply and try and tap it out. The reason I ask is part of the ding has quite a sharp crease and I don't know what kind or pressure an english wheel could apply to fully remove this.If it is unlikely that this method would remove the ding completely I may as well tap it out with dubious outcome and finish with a spread of filler, bleh! Does anyone have experience with limitations of an english wheel.
when a panel has a "ding" and a crease, it has been stretched. To remove the "ding" it is necessary to SHRINK the metal, as described above by others. A wheeling machine is used to STRETCH the metal into shape after shrinking, or shaping a new panel, so probably not what you require. I do have a wheeling machine, but we are based in Suffolk so not a lot of help I am afraid. John.
 

Black Flash

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I had a nasty ding in the middle of an alloy mudguard. With almost no pressure at all I could wheel it out perfectly. A little buffing and it was gone.
Important, it only works where you have enough room to reach it with the wheel, not on folded or doubled sections. Also only use the lightest pressure, if you squeeze the metal you will make it grow.
 

brian gains

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
seems obvious now you mention it about an English wheel adding yet more stretch to an already stretched area. I guess the way forward would be with a dolly and hammer and shrinking where necessary then tidying up with filler. I also seem to recall a tool that looked like a dog legged file for beating panels and that the coarse 'mesh' would reduce the amount of stretch by raising the area of worked panel up in fine hash of dimples.
 
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