Stolen Vincents.

[bengunnhrd]

According to a recent report in MCN another Vincent has been stolen this time from the Oldham area. Over the last year or two i have read of probably 2 or 3 similar cases, my point is has anyone heard that any of these machines have been recovered or any component parts that have turned up. It is difficult to believe that they can totaly disappear.

 

[Graham Smith]

Stolen Machines...

I remember one a few months ago that got stolen. I believe it was a Black Shadow stolen from somewhere in the UK.

The loser wasn't a Member of the VOC, but it was quite ironic that the first people he should contact after the police was the VOC, and wanted a notice put in MPH.

My initial thoughts were that he should at least pay a commercial rate for advertising the fact that his machine had been stolen. He hadn't been interested in the Club until the machine had been stolen, so why now!

In the end, I included a small ad, so that Members of the Club didn't get caught out (although I'm sure anyone from the Club who buys a machine would get in touch with Gordon or Vince first to make sure everything's OK.)

As an aside, it's interesting to note that as Editor of the Club's magazine, I have been contacted on at least two occasions by people who are interested to know if a certain bike still exists. Both of these people had important documentation/history relating to said machine that they were keen to pass on to the current owner.

When I contacted our Machine Researcher, he told me that as far as he knew, both bikes still existed, as they were still in the Club in the early 1990s, but then got sold on and the new owners hadn't joined the Club.

The documentation in question was a batch of old tax disks ranging from when the machine was new right up to the early 1970s and the other person had come across the old style log book for his old bike.

Surely a good reason for remaining a member of the VOC?

 

[timetraveller]

Graham

I think you are being rather hard on people who have Vincents and who are not in the VOC. I have several friends in this position and they all have the same reason. They have a variety of other makes of 'old' motorcycles, typically six to ten, and they would not wish to join six to ten other one make motorcycle clubs. My suggestion to the theft of Vincents, whether from VOC members or others, is that the engine and frame numbers plus any other details specific to that bike be put on both this forum and in MPH. This would give the maximum chance of the bike being recovered or of VOC members not buying stolen spare parts and perhaps of catching the perpetrators and removing some of their body parts. Additionally, rather than punishing people for not being a member of the VOC it would rather advertise the existence of the VOC, the advantages of VOC membership and its inclusive and friendly nature and, hopefully, encourage at least some others to join.

A member for 50 years.

 

[BlackLightning998]

Turning to the question of security....

What sorts of things do Vincent Owners do to maximise the chance of finding parts turning up, my modern bikes are alarmed and datatagged and I don't think I want to do either of these two things to the Rapide - but I've read about something called "smar****er" I think that leaves microdots around various parts - has anyone any experience of using something like that?

I'm in favour of maximum publicity for stolen Vincent parts and machines, member or not - photo's, details, distinguishing marks, the whole enchilada should be given free coverage in MPH I suggest with a view to try and improve the chances of finding and recovering stolen parts and machines.

Stuart

 

[Comet Rider]

Indentifying materials

The 2 main products are "Datatag" which uses transponders and microdot, which when magnified reveal their unique serial number.
The one refered to is "Smar****er" which is more like a unique DNA profile for the marking substance, there being no 2 similar entities in exsistance.

Either will work, but you have to put the 'identifier' in a unique place that only you know (and record) so if stuff gets nicked you can inform the necessary authorities...

Neil

 

[Diogenes]

Regarding security, take a look at Vic Youl's JTAN
entry 10 May 2007, and you will see some concerns.
PART QUOTE."I have posted my real name whereas the
majority of subscibers have used pseudonyms. This is
because I hate hiding when expressing my views. I
suppose this would be ok in club circles but is not
recommended on public sites. So I am of the opinion
that the joining instructions should have displayed a
prominent health warning. As a result I I have
advertised to the world that I am a Vincent owner,
inadvertantly, and my address will be pretty easy to
discover via 192.com.......... I therefore recommend
you only use a disguised name and do not make the same
mistake. ...... better lock up my bikes!!!! As for
giving your birthdate that opens the risk of giving
away your credit card details......after they discover
your mother's maiden name on genesreunited.com."
END QUOTE.
I have tested this by using data only from VOC web
site and easily got Vic's address and phone number
from 192!
It is all too easy to become complacent about theft of Vincents.
"It has not happened to me yet."
But if it does, it will be too late to do much about it.
Anyone using their real name in a public access web forum is asking for trouble. Particularly if the forum, like this one, includes location.
Why make things easy for thieves?

 

[47Rapide]

Having lost and recovered my bike when stolen I feel I can comment on two issues.

Firstly, It should be seen as a service to members to publish any details of stolen bikes and parts. I was able to track my bike from a large number of ads and offers for sale of certain parts and stopped the thief cold albiet over a longish period of time. The bike was sold whole to someone who did not come across any of the warnings floating around on the web. In fact, they contacted the VOC to check the boafides of the serial number they were given. It was the serial number off another bike I owned and was still in my posession. I think this was how they eventually made contact with me and discovered the true state of their purchase. So much easier if we had a stolen bike section on this site with all stolen bikes, parts etc listed. As stated before, It also is a great way for members and the club to present as a warm collegiate bunch and to invite people to join

As I prepare to rebuild my bike, I have enquired about Datadot. This is the company that first released microdot id. The cost is around $300 aud for the kit with the identification numbers and details of the asset stored with the company. In my case, this would have helped confirm the posession of stolen goods with thief when he was caught. At the moment there are parts that the Police has in their possession that are missing from my bike. I may not be able to prove they are mine in any way.

 

[Vince Farrell]

So much easier if we had a stolen bike section on this site with all stolen bikes, parts etc listed. As stated before, It also is a great way for members and the club to present as a warm collegiate bunch and to invite people to join

I would suggest a public stolen bike list is the last thing we want. Any thief seeing a machine he has just nicked on such a list would make sure the numbers were changed pronto.

The VOC Machine Registrar and Researcher maintain a list of all stolen Vincents that the club have got to know of since 1949. Every engine, UFM and RFM that turns up is checked against this list. If potential buyers don’t want to get ‘stitched up’ they should get the #s checked out by the VOC before parting with their money.

If you own a Vincent and haven’t sent in all details of it to the VOC, you are missing out on a great bit of free insurance. This service is not restricted to members.

 

[Graham Smith]

Yes, I agree with Plastic Beer. A published list of stolen bikes/parts on the internet is the last thing we need.

We already have an accurate list of stolen Vincent bikes/parts, but it's held by Vince Farrell and Gordon Powell.

Realistically, are there any Members of the VOC who would go and buy a bike from an unknown source without first finding out its pedigree from Vince or Gordon? I know I wouldn't!

Both of these Club officials are usually available at the end of the telephone.

As Plastic Beer says, publishing a list for everyone to see would just mean a stolen bike (or parts) would get re-stamped.

(My opinion only!)

 

[daveinnola]

i think you have to understand the nature of the beast my ex inlaws used to come to europe every year and pick up a new car and drive it around europe then import it into the states and resell at close to a profit , well a couple of years ago their new bmw was stolen after a couple of days three months later it turned up on a boat load of stolen cars going to the persian gulf , there are gangs that steal to order , and i guess collector bikes are a good profit margine , no thief in his right mind would try to sell a vincent in europe , so its my guess like all of the missing luxury cars they are going to the middle east only to be seen again as basket cases in five or ten years

 

[timetraveller]

Graham. you are going to have to stop using your nose to type. It can only lead to some sort of repetitive strain injury. Despite the possibility of Vincents being stolen to order and shipped great distances it seems to me that the kind of rogue who carries out this sort of crime is likely to be both idle and stupid and more likely to break the bike and try to sell the parts. I do not go to autojumble often but it is not uncommon to see a Vincent crankcase, generally a Comet, at such events. I would love to have a sheet of paper in my pocket with a list of all stolen engine and frame numbers so that I could check at once the provenance of the parts. That way every Vincent enthusiast can be a 'detective' and any crankcase without an engine number can be reported to the local police as suspicious. With 2,000 VOC member world wide it should be possible to track down at least some of the stolen bikes. For example, what happened to Brian Phillip's bikes. Sure they could be sat in a private vault somewhere with whole sets of Piccasos, Rembrandts etc while some rich nut gloats. Even then, upon demise of said nut they will appear at some stage and an eagle eyed and well informed Vincent owner could spot them. He will not do that if he does not have the relevant numbers.

 

[Graham Smith]

Stolen Machines

Norman - your theory that every Member of the VOC who visits autojumbles would carry around a notebook and would meticulously check every Vincent part against it sounds very romantic. But realistically, do you really think it'll happen? I don't!

Christ, lots of Members can't even remember to renew on time, so what chance do we stand of getting them to carry a notebook round with them?

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think along the same lines as PlasticBeer. The only person who this would help is the criminal - or someone who has unwittingly purchased stolen parts, then wants to get rid of any identifiable marks (ie numbers).

An example…
Say Joe Bloggs buys a bike or parts off someone. He then gets home, and checks these parts against a database of stolen machines. Is he going to hand them back to the rightful owner and forfeit the money that he paid for them, or try to remove numbers? I think you know the answer to that.

OK - you say, well of course, I'd tell the police. Well, if we published the list do you think the numbers would be on there in the first place?

Don't forget that the only difference between making a list 'public' and only available to Club Members is someone putting their hand into their pocket and pulling out £28. Not all VOC Members are gentlemen like yourself!