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Starting the shadow after few months - Oil problem

pete4000

Active Website User
VOC Member
Hello everyone,

Weather is becoming better those last days and I decide to check the shadow before starting it after it has been not running for about 4 months.
After checking the oil in the UFM I realised that the UFM was totally empty. All the oil in it gone in the engine. Well, certainely after a long period, the oil stock in the UFM use to go in the engine ??
After that, I decided as I notice oil leaks from the kickstart cover to open it and it was full of oil !
I removed it and find that the oil came from the primary chain case cover, coming by the hole where the kickstart is fix.
I look out the primary chain cover, and it was full of oil !
How the oil from the engine can go in the primary chain cover ? It is normal ??

Many thanks ,
Pete
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
The oil has drained past the valve in the main oil feed pipe that normally should prevent oil flow with the engine off. The oil fills the crankcase then flows into the primary case when the level in crankcase reaches a high enough level. Drain the crankcase and primary case and refill the oil tank /ufm with new oil. The only problem will be that the clutch will have become contaminated with oil and may require cleaning and degreasing.
 

nkt267

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There's a stop valve for when you disconnect the oil pipe as standard, but any anti sumping valve will be an aftermarket jobby..John
 

nkt267

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Not that I have found.The extra length of the spigot that goes into the stop valve opens it and holds it open till you remove the oil pipe..If yours does not sump then your pump is in fine condition,or you use it enough not to notice which I suspect is more likely..My 1932 Sunbeam will fill the crankcase in 3 days,but if it is run every day then you don't notice it..John
 

John Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Interesting , I thought that stop valve also worked as an anti wet sumping valve !

As John says, there is no anti sumping valve on a vin , unless fitted as an extra. The usual way oil flows back to the sump is either through the clearance between plunger and oil pump sleeve or, in rarer instances, between the outside of the sleeve and the parent bore of the crankcase.
We must assume in the case in question that there is no driveside mainshaft oil seal modification fitted. In this case the oil flows slowly back, as described above, until it reaches the level of the mainshafts. It then makes its way through the drive side oil scroll into the primary case and, if the wine bottle cork is missing from the left hand kickstart shaft tunnel, along said tunnel and into the kickstart cover and, usually, onto the floor.
If the two oil seals protecting the clutch are in good order there is a fair chance the clutch has survived without contamination. The advice about draining the various housings is sound, and the bike should run as well as it did at the end of last season, but the wise course is to keep the matter under observation to ensure the amount of flow back is acceptable.
John
 
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timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Back to Pete4000's query. It sounds as though your oil pump is badly worn for it to leak as much as that. Secondly, most of us have a cork in the hole where a left handed kick starter would fit to stop oil going through. This is not just for the kind of problem you have but to stop oil splash from the primary drive going through there to the kick start cover and causing an oil leak which is difficult to track down.
 

pete4000

Active Website User
VOC Member
Well, many thanks for those good advices ! Thank you John and Timetraveller. I began to take off all the oil (primary cover - engine), and will probably pull out the oil pump for check, as it appears that if the oil go in the crankcase cover, it should come from a worn oil pump. I also look out the clutch and it seems not be contaminated by oil. I remenber that I've changed the oil seals.
After those operations done, I will put fresh oil and start the bike.
By the way, is Classic Castrol 20W50 is a good recommanded oil for the Vincent ?
 

John Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
By the way, is Classic Castrol 20W50 is a good recommanded oil for the Vincent ?[/QUOTE]

Hello Pete 4000, Yes castrol 20/50 is satisfactory and I covered many miles on 20/50 of another make until I switched to 10w 40. which is performing well. The reasons for my changing are first, you can buy 10w 40 at any filling station in europe, second, oil technology has moved on since the introduction of 20/50 and as the vincent design makes it very slow to heat up the oil to working temperature I prefer a lube which flows better when cold, and the final consideration is that we buy 10w 40 in bulk and always have around 500 litres in the workshop!!!

John
 
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Hugo Myatt

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Wet sumping never seemed to be a problem when my Rapide was everyday transport. Now that it is for leisure use only it will gradually wet sump over a few weeks or so despite a rebuilt motor. The Conways anti-wetsumping valve seems to be the complete answer. I have three in use, on Rapide and two Comets. All have been very satisfactory as long as you remember to prime the oil lines after oil changes.
 

John Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I quite agree with all of that Hogo. The design of our oil system dictates that there will always be some seeping back, its just a matter of time / quantity. I dont loose any sleep over the matter, and would not reccomend spending huge sums of money trying to rectify modest amounts of leak back. If, as you say, it becomes tedious draining off the excess, the fitting of an anti-sumping valve is usually the complete answer. None of our own Vincents have the need for such a valve, but I have fitted a conway item to a square four, and one of our own manufacture to Petes triton. Both of these are completely successful and have caused no other lubrication concerns. I hope all of this helps Pete 4000 come to terms with something that is probably not a serious issue, but as I have said before, a wise man will keep an eye on the situation to ensure it does not become a problem.
John
 
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clevtrev

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
By the way, is Classic Castrol 20W50 is a good recommanded oil for the Vincent ?

Hello Pete 4000, Yes castrol 20/50 is satisfactory and I covered many miles on 20/50 of another make until I switched to 10w 40. which is performing well. The reasons for my changing are first, you can buy 10w 40 at any filling station in europe, second, oil technology has moved on since the introduction of 20/50 and as the vincent design makes it very slow to heat up the oil to working temperature I prefer a lube which flows better when cold, and the final consideration is that we buy 10w 40 in bulk and always have around 500 litres in the workshop!!!

John[/QUOTE]

When was the last time your oil got to working temperature ?
 

John Appleton

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
When was the last time your oil got to working temperature ?[/QUOTE]

Probably never. When MOT testing diesels for smoke we have to aim for an oil temperature of 80 degrees cels. and the minimum we can test at is 60 degrees. If we wanted to get a vincent up to that we would very likely need an ambient air temp of 40 degrees + cels. so I use thin oil and change it often.
John
 

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