Starter motor problem

[Bill Cannon]

Starter mounts under the gearbox and drive through a reduction gearbox mounted within/through the kickstart cover. It then drives through a sprag (one way) clutch which replaces the kickstart ratchet on the main shaft.

Howard, given that starter drives the main shaft, I don't really understand why freeing the clutch would make any difference. Also it's tricky to do this and hold the decompressor at the same time!!

Bill

 

[vibrac]

The answer is to use a compression release. The standard compression release is not really designed for such usage. If for some reason you are only using one plug in the two plug heads, then it would likely be better to fit a Royal Enfield type decompressor in the other plug hole.
Glen

Wow you mean some people do not use the RE decompressor?.
To be fair I tried the HD pushbutton decompressor on my Comet its still there but as its a pussey to start anyway its not a fair test,the theory is good though, when she fires the valve closes no lever to release or hold. Perhaps even hardly ablesons have something to teach us, (but one things for sure itain'tt humility)

 

[BigEd]

Hi learned gentlemen, could anyone give me a quick rundown on the grosset starter, i assume it drives through the primary chain? If so how does it connect/disconnect?
Thanks
Kevin

On a Vincent twin the starter motor is mounted unobtrusively under the gearbox and can hardly be seen unless you bend down and have a close look.
The motor drives via a slim reduction gearbox through a slot cut in the bottom of the gear cover.
The drive from this gearbox drive another gear that incorporates a sprag clutch that in turn drive the mainshaft to transmit through to the primary side.
There are a few simple tweaks to do to the ratchet gears because of limited space inside the gear cover. The installation leaves the kick-start mechanism in place and functioning as normal.
It is a neat solution to electric starting without major engineering work on a machine that has very limited space for mounting a starter motor and drive.

Bob Dunn has produced an electric starter for the twin that uses a modified primary drive cover. I think the starter motor mounts where the magneto is normally mounted but I may be wrong on this. Glyn Baxter has one fitted to his twin and it seems to perform well. The installation is not as neat or aesthetically pleasing as the Grosset version.

 

[greg brillus]

If it wasn't for the genny/charging system.....I think the best place for a starter on a Vincent twin would be where the generator housing is.....that way you could run a ring gear arrangement on the chainwheel, which would be much more reliable and stronger. the starter motor itself wouldn't look too different to a generator, that is, not ruin the looks too much. I feel the starter kit mentioned works ok on a relatively stock engine, but on a big capacity high compression engine...it is asking too much. That is why some form of decompressor must be used. Cheers...Greg.

 

[Howard]

Hi Bill,

Just trying to eliminate things. If you pull the clutch in and press the starter, the motor should spin the clutch centre, if the motor doesn't run, the problem is between the clutch and battery, if it does, the problem is engine side of the clutch. I don't need to do it on mine (1000 cc 9:1) but I wonder if you could get the clutch spinning and engage it slowly while the starter is at full speed/power - just thinking out loud.

I didn't realise you had decompressors fitted (I don't need them) if the starter won't turn the engine without compression it sounds like you're losing a lot of power somewhere. I just had to free one of the brushes in mine, (using it on salty roads through the winter had taken it's toll), maybe you're losing power there if the brushes aren't in full contact.

H

 

[stumpy lord]

If it wasn't for the genny/charging system.....I think the best place for a starter on a Vincent twin would be where the generator housing is.....that way you could run a ring gear arrangement on the chainwheel, which would be much more reliable and stronger. the starter motor itself wouldn't look too different to a generator, that is, not ruin the looks too much. I feel the starter kit mentioned works ok on a relatively stock engine, but on a big capacity high compression engine...it is asking too much. That is why some form of decompressor must be used. Cheers...Greg.

HI,
All Patrick Godets Egli twins, big or standard, are fitted with Francois electric starters, and they all seem to manage with out kick starters.
stumpy lord

 

[Bill Cannon]

Hi Bill,

Just trying to eliminate things. If you pull the clutch in and press the starter, the motor should spin the clutch centre, if the motor doesn't run, the problem is between the clutch and battery, if it does, the problem is engine side of the clutch. I don't need to do it on mine (1000 cc 9:1) but I wonder if you could get the clutch spinning and engage it slowly while the starter is at full speed/power - just thinking out loud.

I didn't realise you had decompressors fitted (I don't need them) if the starter won't turn the engine without compression it sounds like you're losing a lot of power somewhere. I just had to free one of the brushes in mine, (using it on salty roads through the winter had taken it's toll), maybe you're losing power there if the brushes aren't in full contact.

H

Funny how our use of English can confuse us!
What I called decompressor should of course be called valve lifter (standard Vincent).
Starter will spin the engine easily and quickly with valves lifted but can barely manage to get over compression as soon as you release it.

Brushes look a bit worn to me so I have got replacements on the way. I made up some small wooden spacers to restore the spring pressure to the brushes but this made no signicant difference.

Still hoping some generous sole might lend me a starter so I can try it before I order a replacement.

Regards Bill

 

[Bill Thomas]

Hello bill, I think my brother Ron, Had the Magnets come loose, A long time ago, Have you had it apart ?, Cheers Bill.

 

[Bill Cannon]

Hello bill, I think my brother Ron, Had the Magnets come loose, A long time ago, Have you had it apart ?, Cheers Bill.

Interesting question Bill!
I have stripped it partially but am stuck because the armature appears to be stuck in the rear bearing. It is not clear how it is retained. Perhaps your brother could advise me before I hit it too hard and break something!
Regards Bill

 

[Bill Thomas]

Tried to get him, But he's out, Give Clev Trev a P.M., He spends a lot of time in France ,Good Luck, Bill.