Stafford

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Is it just me or do other people think the price ranges on Vincent related items are well under market, except maybe the "A"? £600 for two heads! UFMs and RFMs for £500 each? A chopped twin for peanuts?!?!?! The guy at Bonhams needs to be charged for serious underquoting.
 

Peter Holmes

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I had also made the same observation, I just presumed they had had a change of staff from someone who was very knowledgeable to someone who has not got a clue, either that or the thought that it would pull the crowds if there was a hint of bargains to be had.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Dont worry Bohams have a clue alright they know what will bring the punters in and when to understate prices, On the two occasions I sold a Vincent with them I always insisted on my estimates for a very good reason that I better not elaborate on.
I will be at Stafford both days I am only taking a Douglas Stationary engine to the Douglas Club stand, so I may room in my van for bulky bits for VOC members on the homward journey on Sunday. (A bike might fit in) I pass Kettering on the way home....
 

Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
A friend was thinking of selling his outfit 18 months ago, 1937 11.50 Brough superior, all matching numbers from the factory including original sidecar chassis and body, on the road, reliable, used for regular trips to France from Yorkshire.
Bonhams, estimate sir, £ 25k.

He's still got it.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
He should have said OK, thats your estimate however my reserve is £100K , it would have been in the catalog at that, they would not have said no, the estimate on a Rough Inferior with original sidecar at H&H onMonday was double that, however like a lot of bikes there it did not sell.
Interestingly the Rapide there (a nice tidy one ) did not reach its reserve and bids went to 32K,I note however in the results its down as sold at £36.160K truly one would be auction novice to think the selling stops when the hammer falls.
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I have been to a few auctions here and the only estimates that have been way out were a 1956 Porsche which doubled the estimate and a 1976 Dino which sold for $525,000 against an estimate of $380,000. Both would have been difficult to estimate in an ascending market. We have laws here regarding auction estimates and if there is a large variation in say estimate and reserve, the auction house will be prosecuted.
 

Chris S

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Always difficult understanding auction house values and sellers reserves. If they put an estimate or reserve at a realistic market value or higher, then potential bidders may be put off. If the estimate is low, they hope for the opportunist bargain hunter (who cannot resist a cheap Vincent) to come along and help push the bidding up. Either way, the lot should still reach somewhere near the true market value on the day. As Vibrac says, the bidding on unsold lots can go on after the hammer drops. Remember though, if a bidder is prepared to pay more than the highest auction bid, but no one else keeps bidding, and the hammer price is below reserve, then the willing bidder cannot get the price in the auction up to what he is prepared to pay and what is also probably at or near to the sellers reserve. So is it right or wrong that after the auction, the bidder, seller and auction house all come to an agreement which is suitable for them all? I personally don't have an opinion either way on it, but others might.
 

Magnetoman

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
So is it right or wrong that after the auction, the bidder, seller and auction house all come to an agreement which is suitable for them all?
After paying the cost to ship a bike to auction and the fees the auction house charges it gets to, say, $47k but doesn't reach the $50k reserve set by the seller for what he thought his bike was worth. At this point the auction is over and the seller faces the cost of shipping it back home again where he can advertise to sell it privately.

Once the auction is over the auction house switches from being an auctioneer to being an estate agent. For the auction house to put the seller and a potential buyer together after the auction where an offer is made for, say, $48k, seems perfectly reasonable. The seller knows he couldn't get $50k for it, at least on that day, and now can pay the auction house's additional fee and sell it for $48k, or pay the shipping company and try to sell it for more once it's back home. The choice is the seller's to make.

Where it gets a little fuzzy is that, at least in the U.S., the auction house holds the title for at least a month. That protects the auction house from losing out on their fee if a private sale is made to someone who actually was at the auction, which seems reasonable, but it effectively removes ownership of the bike for a month, which seems unreasonable (even though those terms were in the agreement the seller signed).
 
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