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Signed Fritz Egli prints VOC discount

Prince Duster

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I had the honour, and excitement, of riding over the Alps in the chair of Fritz Egli's Black Shadow outfit to the Italian rally last year. One of the shots I took was on the cover of MPH a short while ago. Fritz has kindly signed some nice prints of another - showing us stopping in the clouds on the way. Fuller details are at www.amberroom.net/egli/ . These are being offered to VOC members first, at a 10% discount, then elsewhere. Any questions send me a PM, or contact me through the email on the micro-site. Many thanks. David
 

vince998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I had the honour, and excitement, of riding over the Alps in the chair of Fritz Egli's Black Shadow outfit to the Italian rally last year. One of the shots I took was on the cover of MPH a short while ago. Fritz has kindly signed some nice prints of another - showing us stopping in the clouds on the way. Fuller details are at www.amberroom.net/egli/ . These are being offered to VOC members first, at a 10% discount, then elsewhere. Any questions send me a PM, or contact me through the email on the micro-site. Many thanks. David

I restored an Egli vincent (no 4 or 6, can´t remember) for a complete stranger (in the meantime a friend) for cost about 4 years ago!!! I did this as an honour not just to Fritz, but also for all things vincent (and out of fun for learning).
You recieved a lift to the italian Rally and took a few photos, and are selling them for 30 pound a POP:confused:

As you mentioned in your advert, I HAD THE HONOUR ;), and excitement, of riding over the Alps in the chair of Fritz Egli's Black Shadow outfit to the Italian rally last year.

Hows about leaving it at that, and sharing with us all ;)
 

Prosper Keating

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
I think this is being done in conjunction with Fritz, otherwise he wouldn't have signed the prints, would he? It costs money to produce prints of the quality in question. What do you want? Free signed prints? Or 300 dpi uploads to this website so that you can download and print reproduction signed prints while David argues the toss with the VOC about copyright because he published the images through this medium?

Get real...

:D

PK
 

Graham Smith

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
while David argues the toss with the VOC about copyright because he published the images through this medium?

David can do what he wants with his photographs - it's got nothing to do with the VOC.

He's the one who owns the copyright.
 

Prince Duster

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Vince998

Thanks for the input. I yield to few in my admiration of the VOC, and have spent many of my happiest times of my life at its events; one of which was, of course, my trip to the Italian Rally. Where possible, when I’ve written about the bikes, I’ve made sure the VOC’s enduring role is covered.

But the Internet does strange things, one of which is engender the idea that content should be free. Some of it may be to the user, but somewhere behind it someone has taken time to research and write something or buy or hire equipment and take some photographs. Usually, it is at the risk of not making the costs back. That’s freelance life.

It’s great you’ve been able to help get another Vincent on the road, as you state, at cost. But not all of us are in a position to simply offer our work or time for nothing. The shot I took of riding with Fritz, which went on the cover of MPH, is – inline with the VOC policy – copyrighted to the Club. So it is shared with everyone, and I was very proud Graham chose to use it.

So, sorry if offering something for a cost – rather than for free - offends you in any way, but giving content away tends to benefit big and ambitious media companies, and search engines, rather than working journalists or photographers. Out of the two, who would you rather see pay their mortgage? Or, even, keep their Vincent on the road?
 

Prosper Keating

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
The shot I took of riding with Fritz, which went on the cover of MPH, is – inline with the VOC policy – copyrighted to the Club. So it is shared with everyone, and I was very proud Graham chose to use it.

If I might just clarify a minor point, MPH's Copyright Policy as stated on the magazine's Inside Front Cover is as follows:

Copyright Policy: Contributions to the MPH are accepted on the basis that the Vincent H.R.D Owners Club shall have the royalty-free, non-exclusive licence to publish these and otherwise use the material in any way, in any media and at any time, in furtherance of the Club's interest. The Club shall have full editorial control of all material used.

This Copyright Policy also applies to any content posted here on the VOC forum website:

Copyright Policy: Contributions to the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club Forums are accepted on the basis that the Vincent H.R.D Owners Club shall have the royalty-free, non-exclusive licence to publish these and otherwise use the material in any way, in any media and at any time, in furtherance of the Club's interest. The Club shall have full editorial control of all material used.

So as Graham says above, you retain copyright in your work. However, it has to be said that this policy gives the impression that the VOC aims to acquire de facto copyright in contributors' work. Where internet forum postings are concerned, the majority are of little value. However, were members to share valuable material, like interviews with characters from Vincent-HRD's history and relevant images, the VOC would take the view that they henceforth had the right to use such material however they wished, without further reference to its owner or owners. As Andy Everett said in a recent post here, this copyright policy is similar to that of large media organisations like the BBC. Every major publisher or media outfit tries this sort of thing on all the time. Fair enough...business is business. However, large media organisations tend to back down when challenged by collaborators or their agents over such try-ons.

You chose to give MPH a shot of Fritz Egli for the December 2008 cover. While you retain copyright in your work and can do whatever you like with it, the VOC can also do whatever it likes with your work, without further reference to you. I discussed this with Graham on a couple of occasions, after writing up the second prize to the VOC for best stand in the Southern Classic Bike Show. I took the view that since I wrote the piece as a favour for the guys who put so much work into winning kudos for the club, I didn't mind overlooking the copyright policy as I was hardly likely to wish to use that material elsewhere. I also trust Graham not to change my work in a way that makes me look bad. However, I still think that this copyright policy is unnecessarily aggressive and ultimately self-defeating.

Between us, David and I probably worked for most of the motorcycle magazines and papers worth a damn in the late 1980s and mid-1990s. There are also a few others in and around the VOC with relevant track records, like PUB, Roy Harper and Tony Page, to name a few. If the current Editor-in-Chief of The Classic Motorcycle, who rides a Comet to work, is a VOC member, that's another name for the potential list of contributors to print and web-based VOC magazines. OK, so PUB is 'contributing' with the edited series of Tony Rose articles but it seems a shame that such people are not generating new content for our magazine and website. One wonders if this policy, borrowed from the media's robber barons, of trying to obtain de facto copyright in potential contributors' work is having a deterrent effect.

PK
 

vince998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Vince998

Thanks for the input. I yield to few in my admiration of the VOC, and have spent many of my happiest times of my life at its events; one of which was, of course, my trip to the Italian Rally. Where possible, when I’ve written about the bikes, I’ve made sure the VOC’s enduring role is covered.

But the Internet does strange things, one of which is engender the idea that content should be free. Some of it may be to the user, but somewhere behind it someone has taken time to research and write something or buy or hire equipment and take some photographs. Usually, it is at the risk of not making the costs back. That’s freelance life.

It’s great you’ve been able to help get another Vincent on the road, as you state, at cost. But not all of us are in a position to simply offer our work or time for nothing. The shot I took of riding with Fritz, which went on the cover of MPH, is – inline with the VOC policy – copyrighted to the Club. So it is shared with everyone, and I was very proud Graham chose to use it.

So, sorry if offering something for a cost – rather than for free - offends you in any way, but giving content away tends to benefit big and ambitious media companies, and search engines, rather than working journalists or photographers. Out of the two, who would you rather see pay their mortgage? Or, even, keep their Vincent on the road?

Hi David, Time to eat humble pie methinks :(
At the time of my comment to your post, i didn´t stop to think long enough to observe your point of view, or your way of life/occupation.
Please accept my apologies for this.
I´ve never been in a position to mix work and hobby, and reading your reply has opened my eyes somewhat. (you lucky fella :) )
Would there still be a chance of you putting your photos on the forum in low quality form (good enough to see, but not good enough to copy)?
I´m a big fan of Fritz Egli, and have a large hunger for any media i can get of the man.
Your comments ref the internet times are correct. I´ve always assumed (or hoped), that if it´s free, then the person who owns the material has already made there money.
I know i´ve got a data bank of "borrowed" material on my computer, and had i not have been living in times of internet, the info i´ve collected in the last five years would normally of taken decades.
I don´t know how i lived without it !!!:D
 

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