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FT: Frame (Twin) Series D stand catching

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi
I have a Series D stand on my C Rapide and when operated, the linkage bolt catches on the LH rear brake arm.
Also there’s hardly any clearance between the top of the brake arm and the cable support (pic).
I think it’s always done it judging by the wear on the brake arm.
Just wondering if anybody has one f these stands fitted.
Any help appreciated.
 

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Gary Gittleson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As you may already know, the D motorcycle has just one rear brake and no brake arms like that. The rear brake is actuated by a cable running from the pedal to the arm on the backing plate mounted on the right side. So some modification will be in order to make it fit properly on a C.

Gary
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As you may already know, the D motorcycle has just one rear brake and no brake arms like that. The rear brake is actuated by a cable running from the pedal to the arm on the backing plate mounted on the right side. So some modification will be in order to make it fit properly on a C.

Gary
Ok thanks. Don’t know anything about Series D compared to C but
that explains the tight clearances.
Maybe could take a little off the stand pivot bolt but there’s not much to play with.
 

Bill Thomas

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VOC Member
Danno , It can be done there is a photo that flashes across the top screen of a "C" with a "D" stand,
Just a bit of filing and bending.
On my Bikes, I use the "D" stand without the handle assy, But a bit of a heavy lift if the legs are too long !.
I pull back on the top bar of the rear frame member.
 

Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
My sons got a "D" and the single rear brake works better than the twin ones, although my "A" & "B" raps have gone back in to and fitted the model "P" set up where the cable starts at the brake are to LH brake arm then round the back of the wheel to RH brake arm then anchored to the RFM. Double the movement but more power (mechanical advantage) but equal pressure applied to both drums like the front wheel. I have now shortened the rear brake arms by cutting an inch out and rewelding, much better as trying to get an equal load on each brake was not easy.
bananaman.
 

Hugo Myatt

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi
I have a Series D stand on my C Rapide and when operated, the linkage bolt catches on the LH rear brake arm.
Also there’s hardly any clearance between the top of the brake arm and the cable support (pic).
I think it’s always done it judging by the wear on the brake arm.
Just wondering if anybody has one f these stands fitted.
Any help appreciated.
Danno, I had the D type stand on my C Rapide for many years and it was very satisfactory and easy to use. I only removed it because I fitted a sidecar about ten years ago. As I recall the nuts on the stand connecting arm were thin nuts and the pins shortened to suit thus giving a little more clearance.

On my machine the vertical brake arm was in front of the brake cable abutment on the RFM and rested against it in the brake off position. This may be because the cable abutment was a special alloy component that may be a little longer than a standard one. (No, I have just measured three brake abutments including the special alloy one and they all project from the RFM by 2 inches.)

On riding the machine with the stand in the up position the thin nut on the connecting arm was positioned between the turned over top of the vertical brake arm and the brake arm nut at the bottom. Despite the movement of the suspension it never fouled the brake arm at the top nor at the nut at the bottom nor the arm itself and did not interfere with the rear brake operation.

The only thing I can suggest, apart from using thin nuts and shortening the pins if necessary, is to try swapping around the brake arms. There are three to play with, all identical except that the vertical arm on my machine is bent backwards slightly.

Hugo
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Danno, I had the D type stand on my C Rapide for many years and it was very satisfactory and easy to use. I only removed it because I fitted a sidecar about ten years ago. As I recall the nuts on the stand connecting arm were thin nuts and the pins shortened to suit thus giving a little more clearance.

On my machine the vertical brake arm was in front of the brake cable abutment on the RFM and rested against it in the brake off position. This may be because the cable abutment was a special alloy component that may be a little longer than a standard one. (No, I have just measured three brake abutments including the special alloy one and they all project from the RFM by 2 inches.)

On riding the machine with the stand in the up position the thin nut on the connecting arm was positioned between the turned over top of the vertical brake arm and the brake arm nut at the bottom. Despite the movement of the suspension it never fouled the brake arm at the top nor at the nut at the bottom nor the arm itself and did not interfere with the rear brake operation.

The only thing I can suggest, apart from using thin nuts and shortening the pins if necessary, is to try swapping around the brake arms. There are three to play with, all identical except that the vertical arm on my machine is bent backwards slightly.

Hugo
Thanks.
The nut on the stand pivot looks like it’s standard size. May have a thinner one around somewhere but not stainless.
There’s about 1/16” of the bolt that’s above the nut so I could grind that down.
Handy knowing the brake arms are the same. Makes sense anyway.

The brake arm needs cleaning up and repainting so will remove that.
Might just be enough filing the bolt and bending the brake arm a little but will try the others there too.
Otherwise I can take stand off and use the electric grinder.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Just to follow up.
When operating the stand, the top of the brake arm is sandwiched in between
the stand bracket and alloy brake cable support.
It creates some resistance but frees up when the stand is lowered further.
It kind of acts as a stop to prevent the stand dropping by itself.
Otherwise it’s just the long front foot peg through bolt and nuts that’s holding it up.
There’s no spring.
I’ll have a look for the fitting instructions.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There is something wrong there. The springs which were the original way of holding the stand up leave something to be desired but it sounds as though someone has done an unfinished job or something is missing. It would take very little effort to bend the part of the lifting handle so that it does not touch but if I have understood correctly then the lifting handle could just drop down. The lifting handle parts are all steel so will stand a bit of brute force. My suggestion is that you try to find a D owner nearby and have o look at how the original system works.
 

Gary Gittleson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There is something wrong there. The springs which were the original way of holding the stand up
Well, not really. At least not on my D. There are no springs, unless you would call the two halves of the clip "springs". The stand is held up by the clips which grab each side of the connecting link between the lift handle and the stand. These parts are illustrated on page MO 90 of the D spares list. The clip halves are FT290 and the link is FT295.

Gary
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I am not really a "D" man, But I thought they didn't have a spring, What they had was as Gary said,
spring clip, Ft290IMG_20200728_204724 (2).jpg
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I am sure you could make one of the pivots "tighter", With a washer or something to help keep the stand up ?.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Danno, upon re-reading your description of the problem, it seems that you don't have the two FT290's.
Yes. Sorry, I do have those. Just didn’t see them behind the footrest bracket.
Thought the resistance was the nut/pivot bolt scraping on the brake arm.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As far as the brake arm touching the cable stop, just a slight bend in the brake arm would sort it and not be noticeable.
Yes, that would do it. I’ve even tried a feeler gauge between them.
Problem is there’s zero room for bending as then the brake arm is nearer the
pivot nut/bolt.
Only way I can see is to take off a little of the bolt so that it’s level with the nut surface.
Should be enough then to clear and also be able to bend out the brake arm.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Just to make sure there is no confusion the part I am suggesting you bend is that part of the lifting handle that is causing the problem. No suggestion you do anything to the brake arms. If you take off the lifting arm and have access to a decent vice it will take only moments to move the offering bit outwards an eighth of an inch or so.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Just to make sure there is no confusion the part I am suggesting you bend is that part of the lifting handle that is causing the problem. No suggestion you do anything to the brake arms. If you take off the lifting arm and have access to a decent vice it will take only moments to move the offering bit outwards an eighth of an inch or so.
Thanks.
Not much room if any for bending.
The offending part is the bracket and pivot bolt that’s part of the main stand (FT13 /3AS).
There’s about 1/8” clearance between this and the footrest plate. By operating the stand I can see this is about right for one of the FT290 clips which is flush on the inside of the plate.
The plate flexes out a little as the stand is lowered so I don’t think this gap should be any smaller.

Having looked carefully at the arrangement, the brake lever can’t be moved over
to the right at all due to the brake cable support. Maybe a shorter one but then the cable isn’t straight.
The FT13 / 3AS stand bracket can’t be bent to the left due to the FT290 clip on the inside of the footrest plate.

It’s fine. I’ll be able to sort it by shortening the pivot bolt. It’s just all a bit tight around there.
 

Gary Gittleson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Danno,

Unlike most folks here, I am familiar with the D but not the C in the areas where they differ. I do know that the pillion footrests are mounted differently. The RFM pivot bolt FT33/2 in the above diagram passes through a special D series item which I think the diagram lists as FT106/AS. On my bike that piece has a ball mount for a sidecar. That piece does not exist on a C but it is the item to which the two FT290 clips (also known as "springs" in astronomical circles;)) are mounted.

So the clips on your bike are mounted on something else, inevitably somewhere less than ideal for the purpose.

But I am wondering if your problem is that the whole stand setup had to be moved a bit to the right to allow clearance for the pillion footrest plate which the D does not have.

Gary
 

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