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Misc: Charging Systems Series ‘C’ Rapide Battery Not Charging


danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Nope, same unit. That is the dynamo, it generate the electricity that charges the battery that feeds the ignition circuit. The dynamo is cylindrical in shape and is clamped to the cases behind the rear cylinder. The housing behind the gearbox dip stick is where the dynamo enters the primary case to be driven from the primary chain as it passes over the clutch sprocket. The Alton would replace the dynamo.
Steven
Ok thanks.
So the Alton generates the electricity to charge the battery. Are coils needed in addition to the electronic ignition unit to generate the spark?
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
regulator position what about under the seat alongside the tool tray? here is pic of BTH and coils from Vincent Spares web site
26890
 

Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As regards earths the previous owner of my bike drilled and tapped the inner ends of the headlamp mounting bolts and used this as a front end earth terminal running a single wire back to the normal UFM earth point.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Danno, read my posting #36 above where I tell you that coils are used with the BTH. They are small coils.
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I am particularly interested to know where Robert has mounted his regulator. The Vincent twin doesn't have much spare space to fit accessories. (No space to spit through looks good.)
You might be a bit disappointed as there is a lot of non standard stuff on this bike. In this picture alone you can see

1) 34 mm Mikuni flat slide carburetor with big ugly K&N filter
2) 200 watt permanent magnet alternator with a J section poly V belt drive from a jack shaft in place of the generator
3) Voltage regulator for #2
4) Round thingy is the Vacuum Operated switch that changes the advance curve on the Screaming eagle ignition when the vacuum drops off
5) Can't really tell but a large alloy fuel tank with non standard taps
6) Thornton rear springs and shock

Pretty much been like that for 20+ years

Robert




20190424_172846.jpg
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
The BTH is the new electronic magneto. Actually it is an almost self contained CDI unit, the coils being mounted separately from the charging/triggering unit. It fits in the original magneto position and resembles a magneto. So now your ignition is entirely independent of the state of your charging system and/or battery. Just like it was when it left the factory.
https://www.bt-h.biz/fm2rv--flange-mounted-twin-cylinder-16-p.asp
https://vocspares.mamutweb.com/Shop/List/Ignition-equipment/37/1 PR22/bth/1 on the VOC spares web site.

Dead easy to install and setup. I took the RITA off the Shadow and packed it away, I'll keep as a back up. I found my BTH used on evil bay and took a chance. I'm seriously considering one for the Comet in the future, currently it has a Boyer, with the drawback being if the ignition being dependent on the state of the charging system and battery, though the Boyer uses less juice.
Steven
Thanks. Starting to understand it better now.
Just not up with the principles of magneto type ignitions, coming from 70’s BMW background.
So readily available options are:
1. Alton generator and regulator with a seperate electronic ignition + coils. Ignition would be mounted where the Rita is, under front alloy cover. Dependant on battery state.
2. BTH electronic magneto self contained ignition/generator unit. Seperate electronic ignition no longer needed under front oil filter cover.

Reading the BTH installation instructions, it mentions about timing and fixed advance/retard.
Will have to look into this as I haven’t needed to adjust the timing.

I agree, joining the club would be a good idea but would like to bring the bike
along if possible.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Danno, rather than waiting to get your bike on the road and then visiting your local section why not just go along. It is most unlikely that anyone will mind that you do not have a Vincent in working order. In fact most wont mind even if you do not have a Vincent. They just like to meet people with an interest in Vincents. This way you can see who you get on with and which you feel you could invite back to your den. Provided it is one of the knowledgeable ones you will get more information from a ten minute visit than days of poring over words on here. Provided that you have learnt to walk upright, not drag your knuckles on the floor or make messes on the carpet you will fit right in.
 

ClassicBiker

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I agree with TT, go along now Vincent on the road or not, someone is bound to turn up on one and you can look and point and ask questions. We have several individual who show up at our monthly section meets who do not have Vincents at all. One young man is waiting for circumstance and the stars to align in his favor. Very knowledgeable about modern bikes, works in the industry, keeps us up to date. Another more seasoned individual who used to race shows up to just talk bikes, very interesting and has a large number of period photos. He usually brings a few along, he collects them. Buys them directly from specific period photographers or at auction. It's a nice evening out.
Steven
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dont worry about timing the bth Its easier than the old magnetos. The electronics does it all, after taking off the timing cover you slip a rod to hold the mag set the engine to (I say 34 degrees) do up securing nut on the fixed pinion take out rod job done.
And dont forget you still need a dynamo and regulator to provide lights unless you are a day time rider then you only need enough for the stop light and a dab of horn fodder in your battery:)
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
You might be a bit disappointed as there is a lot of non standard stuff on this bike. In this picture alone you can see

1) 34 mm Mikuni flat slide carburetor with big ugly K&N filter
2) 200 watt permanent magnet alternator with a J section poly V belt drive from a jack shaft in place of the generator
3) Voltage regulator for #2
4) Round thingy is the Vacuum Operated switch that changes the advance curve on the Screaming eagle ignition when the vacuum drops off
5) Can't really tell but a large alloy fuel tank with non standard taps
6) Thornton rear springs and shock

Pretty much been like that for 20+ years

Robert




View attachment 26896
Dear Robert,
A great photograph that tells me that this is my kind of bike, one that has been built to ride not just to look at. I am not too interested in originality and I don't do shiny. If I wanted mine to be more standard I would only have to remove the disc brakes, aluminium petrol tank, Mikuni carbs, foam air filters, car alternator, AVO front damper, AVO rear monoshock, Triumph switch gear, ... .... .... no, I like it the way it is, I just want to ride it.:)
Your finned regulator actually looks like part of the cylinder head at a glance. I've just ordered £50.00 worth of assorted electrical bits so in the near future, I'm going to do a complete rewire and repositioning of things.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I bought some of these, For the next time I do electrics, They do, 2, 4, and 6 pin types, Only about £6 for a male / female pair, I might have to use a sealer, To keep the weather out. Cheers Bill.
 

Attachments

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Robert,
A great photograph that tells me that this is my kind of bike, one that has been built to ride not just to look at. I am not too interested in originality and I don't do shiny. If I wanted mine to be more standard I would only have to remove the disc brakes, aluminium petrol tank, Mikuni carbs, foam air filters, car alternator, AVO front damper, AVO rear monoshock, Triumph switch gear, ... .... .... no, I like it the way it is, I just want to ride it.:)
Your finned regulator actually looks like part of the cylinder head at a glance. I've just ordered £50.00 worth of assorted electrical bits so in the near future, I'm going to do a complete rewire and repositioning of things.
Yep, It gets riddenIMG_3598.JPG
 

deejay499

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I took the other route with a Lucas Rita and put on a ‘Walkernator’ which gives 360 Watts and balances everything easily, even with extra sidecar lights and spotlight on.

If you do Facebook there is an Alton page worth looking at.
The regulated supplied with your Alton alternator and fits neatly on top.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
I bought some of these, For the next time I do electrics, They do, 2, 4, and 6 pin types, Only about £6 for a male / female pair, I might have to use a sealer, To keep the weather out. Cheers Bill.
Dear Bill,
You must psychic. One of the items in my £50.00 order that was delivered today was a 6 pin connector similar to the one in your photograph. I'm thinking of using it to make a split in the major wires near the back of the UFM, especially useful if you want to wheel the front of the machine away from the rear. Not a big deal if you only have a couple of wires but more electrics like indicators, starters, etc means more wires.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
And dont forget you still need a dynamo and regulator to provide lights unless you are a day time rider then you only need enough for the stop light and a dab of horn fodder in your battery:)
Ah ok, I thought I was starting to understand.
From what I’ve seen, the dynamo is the same size as the magneto and I only
have the magneto.
What’s providing the power for lighting on my Rapide?
I assume the JG unit.

I would like to have lights. Don’t want to have to rush home anytime when it starts to get dark.
I know that it’s fitting new to old but is there a standard or most popular mod for modernising the Vincent ignition and lighting?
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Do you have a cylindrical object in the position noted in post #41? Your JG unit is only the regulator and the power is produced by whatever is wired to it.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Danno, rather than waiting to get your bike on the road and then visiting your local section why not just go along. It is most unlikely that anyone will mind that you do not have a Vincent in working order. In fact most wont mind even if you do not have a Vincent. They just like to meet people with an interest in Vincents. This way you can see who you get on with and which you feel you could invite back to your den. Provided it is one of the knowledgeable ones you will get more information from a ten minute visit than days of poring over words on here. Provided that you have learnt to walk upright, not drag your knuckles on the floor or make messes on the carpet you will fit right in.
Yes, all makes sense. Having recently moved house, I don’t have a workshop and working on my three bikes in a single garage is a bit of a juggle.
So far, it’s actually the posts on the forum that’s helped get the Rapide back on the road after recommissioning it.
I will try to get along to a meet and look to join up but the help here is really useful.
 

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