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Series ‘A’ Silencer Bracket


A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I am in need of a Series A Silencer Bracket. I've emailed Steve at Conways and await a response.

Meanwhile, I got thinking about making one, but it's by no means easy. It starts with a foot long piece of steel strip 1 inch wide and over 1/4 inch thick. Bending it the conventional way is not so bad. But imagine placing the strip flat on the bench and bending the ends downwards to say a 30 degree angle, that isn't so easy. And yet they did it at the Vincent factory 85 years ago, so it must be possible (without weakening or cracking it). Any ideas how to do it in the home workshop? Or does anyone happen to have one spare?

I've attached a couple of photos of a loaned one so you can see what I'm talking about. (The inch square HSS is there purely to hold it down at one end so you can see the wacky shape).

Peter B
 

Attachments

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
From the elevation picture I think that I could do that by hand and a well mounted vice. One just needs an original to get the angles right. The plan view is less clear as to whether there are bends at right angles to the flat surface. It there are then any 'blacksmith should be able to do those. Are there any curves to fit round the silencer. From the photographs it looks to me as though there are three flats?
 

Bikerjoan

Active Website User
VOC Member
I am in need of a Series A Silencer Bracket. I've emailed Steve at Conways and await a response.

Meanwhile, I got thinking about making one, but it's by no means easy. It starts with a foot long piece of steel strip 1 inch wide and over 1/4 inch thick. Bending it the conventional way is not so bad. But imagine placing the strip flat on the bench and bending the ends downwards to say a 30 degree angle, that isn't so easy. And yet they did it at the Vincent factory 85 years ago, so it must be possible (without weakening or cracking it). Any ideas how to do it in the home workshop? Or does anyone happen to have one spare?

I've attached a couple of photos of a loaned one so you can see what I'm talking about. (The inch square HSS is there purely to hold it down at one end so you can see the wacky shape).

Peter B
Peter, thanks for raising this post & for the photos. Ive also been looking for one of these brackets for some time & would be keen to hear if they could be made available. Jon C
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Peter.

I took pictures of the one on my twin and made measurements and the lot for someone to make one, ( I thought perhaps Bill Irwin) but despite a thorough search of my files and e mails I can seem to find no record of it. That picture "appears" to be quite a bit different than mine. Is it for your twin project, are they different from a single with the frame being a bit longer?
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Peter
I made mine 10 years ago. 1st attempt I got it red hot and as you say the side to side bend is not a problem, but bending through the other axis weakened and cracked several attempts so in the end I deliberately cut half way through, bent it when red hot and then welded the gap up after. The bracket has been on the bike for 10 years and has not been a problem (and yes the bike is used).

Simon
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Wow, thanks for all the replies already. Taking one at a time:

Timetraveller: The bracket is roughly horizontal when fitted and held under the gearbox by two 1/2 inch studs at one end. Bends in both axes are around 30 degrees (haven't measured them yet). The end with a single hole takes a huge chrome inverted P-Clip that clamps around the silencer - that's easy to fabricate. Blacksmiths - do they exist anymore?!

Bikerjoan: Jon, thanks, I'll keep you in the loop...

Robert: I sympathise, I know the feeling; these pesky iCloud things have a lot to answer for - so do ageing brain-cells! Now you've got me worried; I surmised (I know - never do that) that the Single and Twin variant would be identical in this regard; or if not, then insufficiently different to matter given that it's not super-critical where the P-Clip lies on the silencer.

vin998: Simon, thanks for that; I was thinking along similar lines. What I need to do first is compare the "loaner" I have with another bracket. Fortunately, the Mid-Glos Lot have a few As that I can peruse...

Peter B
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The one on my A twin is about 16 inches long and puts the P clip just slightly ahead of the rear footrest. If you look at World Motor Cycles Vincent-HRD by Peter Carrick on page 23 although it is not very good of this particular piece you can see the P clip is just ahead or even just under the rear footrest.
it is loaded to take to the Lynden show for Saturday but when it comes home I could take it off and see if I can give you enough measurements to make one.

Robert




20140904_085449.jpg
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I've just sent 2 off to the paint shop.......An original off a single and a replica for a twin. I would say the originals were probably done in some kind of rollers to get that shape. It is also worth noting that the pipe is supported by another band style clamp immediately bellow the rear of the kick start cover on the gearbox. This clamp arrangement is also attached to this same muffler bracket via a 5/16" diameter hole just behind the two 1/2" holes that mount the bracket to the lower engine/gearbox plates. I'm only going off pictures I've seen of these in Bickerstaff's "Original Vincent" that clearly shows the band clamp. Without this the exhaust system will shake sideways quite badly, and this will loosen the joint at the exhaust stub. All of this is important as the clearance for the kickstart levers is affected by this.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Blacksmiths can still be found in country areas where people have horses. They might not be called 'blacksmiths' anymore but there is normally someone around who can make bits for a tractor at short notice etc. I can think of two within about ten miles of me who do general machining, welding etc and this is south east England, one of the most urbanised parts of the UK.
 

Dinny

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Peter,

Very interesting as I’m also looking for one. If you feel like making a batch.......:)

Cheers
Mark
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I've just sent 2 off to the paint shop.......An original off a single and a replica for a twin. I would say the originals were probably done in some kind of rollers to get that shape. It is also worth noting that the pipe is supported by another band style clamp immediately bellow the rear of the kick start cover on the gearbox. This clamp arrangement is also attached to this same muffler bracket via a 5/16" diameter hole just behind the two 1/2" holes that mount the bracket to the lower engine/gearbox plates. I'm only going off pictures I've seen of these in Bickerstaff's "Original Vincent" that clearly shows the band clamp. Without this the exhaust system will shake sideways quite badly, and this will loosen the joint at the exhaust stub. All of this is important as the clearance for the kickstart levers is affected by this.
Greg,

Yes, I have countless photos of As and the Twins mostly seem to have the extra clamp that you mention. Very few singles have it though; but they do have a clamp supporting the front of the pipe attaching to the front engine plate - in various different places - sometimes at the bottom of the plate and sometimes on a forward facing "bulge" on the front-face of the RH plate. Either way, I agree, adequate clamping of the exhaust is a must given the nature of the fixing at the exhaust port...

When you get the exhaust brackets back from the painters, would you mind posting a photo of them side by side please?

Thanks, Peter B
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Blacksmiths can still be found in country areas where people have horses. They might not be called 'blacksmiths' anymore but there is normally someone around who can make bits for a tractor at short notice etc. I can think of two within about ten miles of me who do general machining, welding etc and this is south east England, one of the most urbanised parts of the UK.
Yep, last night I googled for "blacksmiths" in my area and was astounded to find plenty of them! As Chris Launders says they tend to major on gates, railings and also exotic-shaped curtain poles; but any metal-forming jobs are willingly taken-on.

Peter B
 

kettlrj

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
If it cracks when it is bent, then it was not hot enough or you were using a high tensile steel rather than a ductile mild steel.
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Right, I have been researching the "rear exhaust bracket" issue with some vigour over the last couple of weeks.

First, I spoke to Steve at Conways. He said that given that he had only one part number for this item he surmised that there was only one type. Then he said he had a remaining one in stock - which I bought (at £eek!) - it arrived the other day and is the same as Robert's and mercurycrest's (give or take the odd tweak) - in other words, a LONG one.

Then I visited Series 'A' mates - all with Singles and all with the SHORT type - exactly as per my 2 x photos in #1 above.

Then I spent an hour or more searching my extensive archives of Series 'A' photos. These are my conclusions:

Approximately 4 in 5 'A' Singles have the SHORT type. (The remainder being LONG).
All 'A' Twins have the LONG type - with the exception of the Factory Brochure Photo and V1001 which have the SHORT one. (The early factory photo of Phil Vincent sitting on an 'A' Twin has the LONG one).


Interestingly, because of the P-Clip design around the silencer, either bracket will fit either model; but in all cases the LONG bracket provides the best support - in conjunction with the extra fixing at the silencer/pipe interface - as mentioned by Greg at #8 above.

Here's couple of mock-up photos that show you a 1935-6 original short bracket and the Conways-supplied long one. Note the different bend geometries - but ending up with pretty much the same offset.

27163

27164

I am being urged to get a batch of each made. But if I take it forward, they will be supplied bare of paint because with different exhaust suppliers and all sorts of tolerance variations associated with fitting such an item, some fettling and tweaking of the bracket will inevitably be required. They would be supplied on this basis. Any takers?

Peter B
 

Dinny

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Peter,

I have looked at original factory pictures and the P clip around the silencer appears to be always in the same position to the silencer but on the early bikes the silencer to exhaust clamp is forward of the later bikes as per the picture below. The silencer also appears to be shorter on the later bikes.

I will be in for the short type as mines missing.

Cheers
Mark

8412D057-45AC-444D-9B75-44E04EB93783.jpeg24CCAD2D-ABCC-48F5-BD01-4107A03BE606.jpeg
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dinny,
Thanks, that's interesting because I was looking at a mate's rusty silencer, the same as that one (FWL 58 - a late model), just yesterday. The only difference is that it had the diagonally cut back-end (as per your factory photo). To quote Simon's mantra yet again - "There's no such thing as a Standard Vincent".
Peter B
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
An update on Exhaust Brackets.

I am able to go forward with making a batch of the SHORT ones - sample dimensions are the same.

However, Robert's bracket dimensions (thank you!) for the LONG ones are quite different from the Conway-supplied replica. Both have potential issues on my mock-up with touching the RH brake-cross-shaft lug when the RFM is moved up and down. So I would be really grateful for dimensions of at least one other LONG bracket so that I can have a reasonable chance of getting this right first time. Can anyone else help please?

Peter B
 

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