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A: Oil Pipework Return Oil Pressure High?

John Fewster

Website User
VOC Member
Blowing ferrule joint with return pipe A58. Problem came suddenly. I started bike after few weeks off and noticed the oil return pipe A58 along with rubber section to rear rocker feed was pulsating like a vein about to burst. Never noticed this before. It settled down after a few minutes and I made short test drive. When I restarted, the pulsations pushed the rubber section clean off top of return pipe A58 and the junction with A68 to rear rocker feed banjo. Stopped immediately since oil was peeing out. I have since blown out with airline (no blockages found) and removed all rocker feed banjos and re fitted all new washers etc. Very easy to blow through pipe to tank so positively no blocks. Re fitted all the rubber sections of hose (slightly longer bits) all de-greased and hylomared. Standard push fit (not crimped) ferrules as have been in place for years no problem. Started up. Oil pumping through to tank return straight away no problem... BUT return pipe still 'throbbing' and after couple of seconds oil seeping copiously from ferrule joint top of A58 return pipe!!! Help! - John Fewster
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I use these clips with a set of blunted pincers they exert huge forces and are easily removed by cutting an ear never seen a pipe come off once these baby's get a grip mostly called double ear clips I call em London underground clips :)
1603803569307.png
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Oetiker Clips.


David
 

John Fewster

Website User
VOC Member
London Underground and Oetiker both look effective, but I like the grooved pipe and wire under uncrimped ferrule solution... will probably do this after test drven a bit with the temporary Jubilee clips. I am definitely not concours-ist, but I do like to have things looking slick. Found really good extra long s/s ferrules with slighty flared opening here:
 

CollingsBob

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
London Underground and Oetiker both look effective, but I like the grooved pipe and wire under uncrimped ferrule solution... will probably do this after test drven a bit with the temporary Jubilee clips. I am definitely not concours-ist, but I do like to have things looking slick. Found really good extra long s/s ferrules with slighty flared opening here:
Thread the hose on to some steel rod, chuck it in the lathe, or a drill press and touch it with a hacksaw or a toolbit, the groove doesnt need to be any deeper than the depth of the herringbone. A standard ferrule will work just fine - if the ferrule is 1/2” long, put the groove at the 1/4” mark, bend the twisted end of the wire so that it just barely protrudes from the ferrule. A smear of permatex on the metal pipe, another smear on the rubber hose..push the ferrule on and have a single malt.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I think you must make a distinction between slide on ferrules and crimped ferrules. I guess (and its only a guess) Bob is talking about slip on and leave it, that's the most 'conkorzy way'. The factory had the advantage of ferrules just right for the tube they had back then and needed nothing else. of course any one who has some correct diamond pattern hose nowadays is on the last knockings, as they stopped making it18 months 2 years ago and the cleverest cad cam. plastic rolling. rubber masticating, 3D printing anorack hasent worked out a way of making it yet.
I must admit the slip on ferrule method does work with the right size hose for fuel, as the crap they call petrol nowadays gives some swelling, but who knows for how long?
 

CollingsBob

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Actually...I use crimp on ferrules, I dont crimp them because I never purchased a crimper. A dollop of gasket goo on the end and the sides of the rubber hose - everywhere that the ferrule contacts the herringbone hose. 2 turns of s/s lockwire..and perhaps most importantly - I don’t have a twin start oil pump..it’s unnecessary and only serves to squeeze the oil out of every nook and cranny..
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Just had a thought, I wonder if my pulsations are because I don't use an oil filter ?.
Over 50 years and a lot of racing I have had a few disasters !,
And always found BITS all over the place , Evan with a filter,
So now I prefer to have a better flow of oil, Without A filter, And anything heavy,
Might / Should ?, Stay in the bottom of the oil filter chamber ?.
Just my thoughts !!!.
 

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Back in the day when I used to run with a felt oil filter I used to check them when doing an oil change, there was always sparkly little pieces of metal embedded in the felt, hardly surprising when on a rebuild it was found that the main bearing had walked and the crankpin nut was grinding itself away on the bearing outer race, a very common occurrence I believe. That fault was corrected (hope it still is) and I now use a club spares style paper filter, it does concern a little whether the rubber seals at each end actually make an oil tight seal on the sand cast aluminium at the back end of the filter housing, but whether it does or not I would always use a filter, and a magnetic sump plug. Phil Irving saw fit to design the engine to run with a filter, and I bow to his knowledge. I own an early Honda motorcycle, a CB77, a very well mechanically designed and manufactured early Honda, when I first purchased the bike in 1999 one of the first things I did was to change the oil and check the filter housing, it does not have a conventional strainer type filter, but runs a high speed rotating cylinder to centrifuge the debris to the internal wall of the cylinder, with the centrifuged clean oil flowing out through a central orifice, well I can tell you the filter cylinder was heavily encrusted with loads of hard, solid debris, probably never been cleaned and only running at a much reduced filtration capacity, this is why we have oil filters, and why we should change them regularly. Obviously Bill has loads of experience and knowledge, and I bow to his achievements, but on this one I think he is wrong, run a filter, you know it makes sense.
 
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vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
And look in the filter housing on a Comet not all castings have the boss surrounding the timing case hole concentric that can make for a leaky filter (search for definitive forum entry)
 

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
And look in the filter housing on a Comet not all castings have the boss surrounding the timing case hole concentric that can make for a leaky filter (search for definitive forum entry)
Yes, I had that anomaly, and corrected it with the engine in situ with the judicious use of a decent hole saw, a slow speed cordless drill, and a circular thick piece of plywood to fit into the oil filter housing with a central hole bored in plywood bung to keep the hole saw central to the housing, I sort of know what I did, even it sounds terrible, I think I did put a more detailed account on the forum a few years back, but it worked just fine, removed the casting eccentricity and hopefully now making a good seal with the oil filter.
 
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John Fewster

Website User
VOC Member
Yes the Jubilee clip temproary solution has worked. Oil bubbling up into tank as should and not a weep from pipe. Think combination of chrome pipe, non-setting Hylomar and loose ferrule was problem. I will replace unsightly Jubilees with wire in grooves under nice firm new S/S ferrules when I can get round to it... many thanks for all helpful comments!
 

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