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Replicas, Specials, Fakes and Forgeries The Classic Motorcycle September, 2020

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
My favourite is still the ex cycle world editor judging at a reasonably large concours where I had my two A's just to support the local Club. I had put the TT Rep in my wife's name on the entry just for fun.
As the Judges walked by without even stopping I heard him remark. Well it's a Replica, never been run and owned by a woman. Then they gave best in show (Rules were min 25 years old) to a brand new (less than 6 months old but registered as a 1968) Godet Egli and when informed of this just said, we know and we don't care.
That incident ended the concours at that venue for ever!
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I wince a bit at the Clubs Vincent being referred to in the CM mag as "Out on the road"o_O Sadly (very sadly) as far as I know its been stuck in a NZ museum (or two) ever since it had to be auctioned because no (first offer) club members wanted to buy it, A great pity as it was probably put together with more care and better machined parts than any bike available at the time.
That it seems is a good summary of the investor side of the business personally I have always regarded replicas (sorry evocations) as real bargains.
 

Graham Smith

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
I wince a bit at the Clubs Vincent being referred to in the CM mag as "Out on the road"o_O Sadly (very sadly) as far as I know its been stuck in a NZ museum (or two) ever since it had to be auctioned because no (first offer) club members wanted to buy it, A great pity as it was probably put together with more care and better machined parts than any bike available at the time.
That it seems is a good summary of the investor side of the business personally I have always regarded replicas (sorry evocations) as real bargains.

I was half-tempted to buy that bike.
I think it was a bargain.
 

Chris Launders

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I built a replica SS100 Brough, How I did it was published in the club newsletter and all it's details are with the club machine registrar so it would be almost impossible to pass off as genuine should anyone (whoever gets it when we've gone) try.
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
I built a replica SS100 Brough, How I did it was published in the club newsletter and all it's details are with the club machine registrar so it would be almost impossible to pass off as genuine should anyone (whoever gets it when we've gone) try.
Chris, thats the honest way of doing it and there are Vincent owners doing exactly the same getting new engine numbers that identify the engine as not original Vincent factory.
Then on the opposite side there are certain people who are actively trying to pass of new engines, and bikes as the genuine article which goes back to the article in the initial post of this thread.

Simon
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
So the Bike being the frame, You could build an engine with new cases and it would be OK ?,
But you couldn't get an age related Plate ?,
Not that I could afford new Cases :D .
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Yes its a simple job to ask Simon for a new engine number we got one for the engine on our Egli Racer (now in USA) when we built it and Ben got one for an engine he built for a customer in South Africa I think if you buy a set of new crankcases that should be your first job (apart from also marking them and all covers with your matching mark) Of course neither of these are places with draconian controls on 'evocations'
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
So the Bike being the frame, You could build an engine with new cases and it would be OK ?,
But you couldn't get an age related Plate ?,
Not that I could afford new Cases :D .
Bill
As per anything to do with the UK DVLA its confusing.

When you apply for an age related registration the DVLA rules are that all major dateable components have to be over 25 years old to qualify for such an application and that is taken to be both the engine and frame on a motorcycle based on their numbers stamped on. So in this situation a brand new replica engine could not be dated as over 25 years old and so would mean the bike would not qualify for an age related application and potentially be looking a Q plate, but its the DVLA that makes that final decision.

Now the DVLA take the identifying number that is permanently linked to the registration as the frame number, but engine numbers can be changed if say an engine is damaged / worn out etc. So once you have a registration you can change a engine and its number on the V5C registration document and the DVLA don't ask anything about the replacment engine apart from its serial number.
So yes a new replica engine with a new number from the VOC which identifies it as such can be fitted to an original Vincent chassis and used in the UK, but only if the bike already has a V5C.

Yes I know it doesn't make sense, but when has the DVLA ever done so?

Simon
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks Simon, That's what I thought, I changed an engine myself years ago, And went to the local DVLA,
The table where I sat the bloke was Super !, But the next table, I could hear was giving Him a hard time !.
I was feeling HOT :D .
But as you know they have now closed these places and you have to deal with Swansea.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have had a 1959 Greeves with a V5 I have owned for 30 odd years and a Triumph twin engine of the same era. Last year I got a dating certificate from VMCC for the engine sold the broken greeves engine fitted the Triumph and changed the V5 and the capacity. all allowable. 25 odd years ago I got a V5 for the Greeves ( its an old Hawkstone racer) and had enough brains to make sure the year of manufacture was correcty shown as well as the date it was registered.
 

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