Regulator wiring for Alton

[aljobo]

The regulator on my Shadow being rebuilt has 4 wires exiting from it. The one that puzzles me is the yellow one. What is it and what's it connected to?

 

[Comet Rider]

Regulator Rectifier wiring

AlJobo,
Send me a quick digital snap and I should be ableto help, as there are a number of possibilities depending upon which Alton you have...

Neil
Possibles are
AC input (will be 2 wires or more)
Switched live (to activate reg/rec)
Earth
Live out

 

[aljobo]

Hi Neil,
Thanks for your reply.
I will try to take a picture of the regulator, but my garage is not at my home so it will take a day or so. However, my memory of the regulator is that it has a black liquid sealed base, with four wires out - red, black, green and yellow. The new loom I bought of course doesn't have exactly the same colours and the diagram in the books isn't the same as the loom anyway!
Allan

 

[Len Matthews]

Alton alternators

Chatting to a knowlegable member at the Riders Rally last Sunday about Altons, he told me that it is possible for the battery to run down if not disconnected, should the machine be idle for some time. Is this the case? Has anyone experienced this problem?

 

[bmetcalf]

Chatting to a knowlegable member at the Riders Rally last Sunday about Altons, he told me that it is possible for the battery to run down if not disconnected, should the machine be idle for some time. Is this the case? Has anyone experienced this problem?

Not here, I leave my battery connected all winter and when I put my Battery Tender on, it shows full charge right away.

 

[Pete Appleton]

Battery discharge

he told me that it is possible for the battery to run down if not disconnected, should the machine be idle for some time. Is this the case? :

Morning, Len

Yes I had exactly this problem, but it was down to a confusing wiring diagram and my ignorance.

There are two wires from the regulator that go to the positive supply. One of them (the red I think) is the charging lead and should be on an unswitched connection to the ammeter. The other (green?) is the voltage sensing lead that the regulator uses to determine battery voltage and er.. regulate. This sensing lead has an extremely low voltage draw, in the order of a few milliamps, and will flatten the battery if left for a couple of weeks. This lead should be connected via the ignition switch if you have coil ignition. For those with magnetos then some means of disconnecting this green wire is required when leaving the bike parked up. This needs to be done with extreme caution as starting the bike up with this wire disconnected will cause the regulator to 'see' a dead flat battery and go to maximum charge voltage with unfortunate results for just about everything electrical on the bike.

Pete

 

[The VOC Spares Company Limited]

I can confirm what Pete says, I experimented with a diode in place of a switch but the volt drop across the diode confused the regulator, I spoke to Herve and he agreed.
I now have a small H***a switch with one set of NO and one NC contacts using the open one for the Alton and the closed one as a cutout on the BT-H mag.
Ian

 

[rwhitne2]

Pete -thank you for this bit. My new batt went dead after sitting 2 weeks w/ the new Alton in 9/09. Rechecked things per your Post and the Alton wiring diagram. Did not have a wire from the regulator direct to the ignition switch as the Alton diagram clearly shows. In my diagram, Alton shows it is the black wire that goes to the ignition switch, so I ran a direct wire to the ignition switch on my D. As you say the Red is to an unswitched ammeter connection. Its hooked up now and will be able to ride soon weather permitting - will post back assuming problem solved. Mike

 

[derek]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[derek]

Recent drawing from Alton shows wiring of rectifier/regulator as, green to earth, pink and yellow one to each of the two black wires from the alternator, red and black join together to a single wire (this is where an isolation switch to prevent battery drain should be fitted) connecting via the headlamp switch to the negative side of the ampermeter. Alternatively drain can be prevented by disconnecting the positive terminal at the battery.

Alton also state that the bike can be run without a battery if one or both of the black wires from the alternator are disconnected.

 

[Pete Appleton]

Wiring confusion

Hello Derek

I think that something is getting lost in translation.

red and black join together to a single wire (this is where an isolation switch to prevent battery drain should be fitted)

The red is the chargeing wire. If you connect it to the same switch that you use as an ignition switch then the bike will continue to run on alternator power even though you have switched off. It is only neccessary to isolate the black, sensing, wire as the red one is isolated by diodes. If you really want to use a switch on the red wire then it will need to be a heavy duty one as all of the charge will go through it.

connecting via the headlamp switch to the negative side of the ampermeter.

The alternator is not connected through the headlight switch. What they are saying, I hope, is that the charge should be connected to the same side of the ammeter as the headlight switch.

Alton also state that the bike can be run without a battery if one or both of the black wires from the alternator are disconnected.

True if you have a mag

Any chance of posting the diagram here?

 

[derek]

Peter,
Both the red and black wires are charging wires, as the rectifier is a full wave rectifier,ie from both sides of the sinisoidal wave: Yes I agree that the connection at the head lamp switch is just to connect to the same side of the ampermeter; one side from battery through meter to negative side to circuit at head lamp switch, the othe direct from charging, connecting to circuit at head lamp switch.
The isolating switch does go where I said, either being a separate switch or a double contact ignition switch (one set of contacts for isolation of charging side, the other set for switching ignition) My email address is derek@delro .co.uk if you contract me I will email drawing, as I don't know how to make attachment to this reply. Derek

 

[Shadowman]

Chatting to a knowlegable member at the Riders Rally last Sunday about Altons, he told me that it is possible for the battery to run down if not disconnected, should the machine be idle for some time. Is this the case? Has anyone experienced this problem?

I've got the latest Alton on my Rapide and it works really well showing a charge at just over 30mph in top gear. So well I'm thinking of getting a plasma TV for the handlebars. However it does loose charge when idle but it takes weeks to loose it. Doesn't bother me though 'cos I've got a magneto.

 

[Pete Appleton]

Battery Drain

Derek, I have sent you an e-mail and will be interested to see the latest diagram.

Hello Len.
As you say, starting the bike with a drained battery is not a problem if you have a mag. It is, however, something that Alton advise against. The problem is that if you start the bike with a dead flat battery then it is, effectively, putting a short circuit across the alternator and causing it to charge at its absolute maximum for a long period. Due to the primitive regulator used, this maximum current is not regulated and will burn out the windings.

It should also be noted that it is not the alternator or the charging circuit that causes the battery drain. It is the voltage sensing circuit of the regulator that does this and is the only thing that needs disconnecting.

 

[Hugo Myatt]

I don't know the correct LX technical terms but I have a very neat and small key operated switch let into the headlamp shell on my Rapide. In one position it interrupts the battery + feed to the ammeter + side but connects the magneto cut out to earth and in the other position vice versa. It is therefore impossible to start the bike without operating the switch and connecting the ammeter and disconnecting the magneto cut out so protecting the Alton and regulator against forgetfullness. This seems to stop the battery discharging. Unfortunately I have never been able source a similar switch for my Comet. The Comet will discharge if left for any time so I remove the fuse from the battery negative to earth but with a large and startling notice left on the tank saying 'CONNECT FUSE BEFORE STARTING.