H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres Rapide front wheel spindle too short?

Simon Dinsdale

VOC Machine Registrar
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
The initial post said there wasn't enough of the spindle protruding from the brake plates to get the thin nuts on to hold the plates on. I read spindle as what I call the hollow axle. Phil doesn't say which type of brakeplate he has so he needs to let us know first. The problem is with the shims or the wheel bearing combination or the brake plates which could be buckled and need excess shims not to catch. Finally the hollow axle should be 6" long so that needs checking.

The problem Is nothing to do with the front forks as Phil is discussing fitting the brake plates to the hollow axle with the thin nuts and until he has achieved that he cannot even try and fit the wheel into the forks.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The initial post said there wasn't enough of the spindle protruding from the brake plates to get the thin nuts on to hold the plates on. I read spindle as what I call the hollow axle. Phil doesn't say which type of brakeplate he has so he needs to let us know first. The problem is with the shims or the wheel bearing combination or the brake plates which could be buckled and need excess shims not to catch. Finally the hollow axle should be 6" long so that needs checking.

The problem Is nothing to do with the front forks as Phil is discussing fitting the brake plates to the hollow axle with the thin nuts and until he has achieved that he cannot even try and fit the wheel into the forks.
Unless of course he is trying to fit nuts on alloy plates
Really we are all in the dark till he says
1, Alloy or steel plates
2 what does he call and axle and a spindle?
1540630044555.png
 

Phil Arundel

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Finally got back to the thread - thanks for all the posts. Vin998 got the thrust of my problem.
To clarify I am assembling the front wheel independently of the machine.
I have steel brake plates.
I mean the hollow spindle which runs through the wheel hub.
When I have assembled all the components one of the brake plates binds on the brake drum (finned variety).
I need to shim out the brake plate to prevent it from binding on the brake drum.....but there is not enough thread on the hollow spindle left protruding when I have done this to screw on the thin nut. This leads me to believe the hollow spindle is too short.
It was mentioned in a post that the spindle should be 6" long......just been to measure and it is 5-7/8" The extra 1/8" would solve my problem.
Has anyone got a front wheel hollow spindle 6" long for sale?
Thanks again all.
Regards,
Phil
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Phil,

Maybe your hollow axle has been shortened. I only had the metric version handy for this photo, but the length should be the same on both and it is 6".
Metric Hub Dim.PNG


David
 

Kevin Emery

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Hello

I have the same problem.

I have steel hollow axle and brake plates. When I tighten the nuts up on the hollow axle I am only half way down on the nut threads. So, I decided to measure this all up. My axle length is 5 15/16". (It looks like the axle manufacturing quality control is not good. We have three axle lengths recorded in this thread alone!) The gap between the girdraulic blades in 6 1/16". I measured the spacer washers and on the left side is 4.8mm and on the right side 5.1mm. My assumption is that the brake plates are buckled. I made up a home made rig based on a wheel balancing table, a hang glider instrument clamp and a run out gauge. The run out on the left side plate was 50thou" and the run out of the right plate is 70thou". My brake plates are definately buckled. My apologies for the mixed measurement systems.

My conclusion is that the brake plates are buckled. Therefore I have to add more spacers to make up for the buckle. That is why the nuts do not fit fully.

However is my case if I did get rid of the buckle on the plates and wound the nuts in then the whole would be too narrow for the Girdraulic blades. Perhaps my wheel & girdraulics were assembled this way to compensate for the buckled plates?

Question. How does one fix buckled brake plates? Can they be turned down on a lathe or is it a case on new plates?

Regards
Kevin
 

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chankly bore

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
I think the brake plates were never meant to last 70 years. The riveted over anchor pin is a point of concern in any plate that has been damaged or bent. The shoe pivot pins are also known to have converged. It is instructive to place a dial gauge (D.T.I.) against a plate and operate the brakes! There have been several articles historically about welding two triangular supports between the anchor pins an the cam boss to improve rigidity. Also a nifty wheeze done many years ago by a Gippsland member here in Australia was to narrow the eyes of the brake shoes and contrive a fixed plate held by countersunk screws to keep the pivot pins parallel.You could also re-engineer the area with through bolted pivot pins a bit like the racing components. One of our American cousins just used to "straighten" the plates, but this just weakens them and cures the symptoms, not the problem. Any flexure ANYWHERE lessens braking efficiency and brake plates are mostly overlooked in this respect.
 

Phil Arundel

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Hello

I have the same problem.

I have steel hollow axle and brake plates. When I tighten the nuts up on the hollow axle I am only half way down on the nut threads. So, I decided to measure this all up. My axle length is 5 15/16". (It looks like the axle manufacturing quality control is not good. We have three axle lengths recorded in this thread alone!) The gap between the girdraulic blades in 6 1/16". I measured the spacer washers and on the left side is 4.8mm and on the right side 5.1mm. My assumption is that the brake plates are buckled. I made up a home made rig based on a wheel balancing table, a hang glider instrument clamp and a run out gauge. The run out on the left side plate was 50thou" and the run out of the right plate is 70thou". My brake plates are definately buckled. My apologies for the mixed measurement systems.

My conclusion is that the brake plates are buckled. Therefore I have to add more spacers to make up for the buckle. That is why the nuts do not fit fully.

However is my case if I did get rid of the buckle on the plates and wound the nuts in then the whole would be too narrow for the Girdraulic blades. Perhaps my wheel & girdraulics were assembled this way to compensate for the buckled plates?

Question. How does one fix buckled brake plates? Can they be turned down on a lathe or is it a case on new plates?

Regards
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
It turned out that my plates were slightly buckled too.
I ended up shimming out the plate until it was just about acceptable but this meant the thin nuts would not screw on fully.
I also thought about skimming the brakes plates on the lathe but decided better of it.
However, I mounted the wheel assembly in the forks and the remainder of the binding brake plate disappeared!
It seems that the slight buckle was eliminated as I tightened up the long wheel spindle !!?
The distance between the fork blades was slightly wider than the complete wheel assembly but, of course, was taken up when tightening the long wheel spindle

By the way the hollow wheel spindles that Maughans produce are 5.15/16" long.
Phil
 
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