Quaife 5 speed

A-BCD

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
My B has 9:1s, 105 cams - I too have a 48t rear sprocket but a Shadow high first gear. No problem, and I remember reading years back that you'll get higher top speed and acceleration on a mildly tuned twin with a 48t sprocket anyway. Works for me !!
 

Somer

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Final ratio will still be 1:1. Vins are so torquey, I think 4 speeds are fine. You really don't have to "row' them around.
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Thanks guys for the input. I think I will save my money. The only really +ve reports came from those Canadians who played with the ratios. They do big miles with a full load, I do neither.
 

Vincent Brake

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I like (with a V3 clutch) very much the intermediate box, as 1st is to low on all those round a bouts and 2nd to high.
Though never tested in italy in the mountains.
Cheers Vincent
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
For those of us who are not familiar with the gear ratios of this box, could someone let us know what we are discussing? As far as I know there have been two different five speed boxes for Vins. Possibly a Quaife/Surtees one and a Terry Prince one. One had a Rapide like first gear and a Shadow first gear like second gear while the other was more of a close ratio system, all this from memory with no personal experience. This seemed to me to be a good idea. Years ago I tried to be sociable by going out for rides with the local VMCC. Narrow country roads and speeds governed by BSA Bantams and Francis Barnetts made for a very clutch slipping experience and I gave up on the idea. A Rapide first gear might have made it more enjoyable but the Shadow first gear can have advantages in some conditions so a combination seemed like a good idea to me. Anyone out there with the fact please?
 

Monkeypants

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
According to my calculation using the overall ratios given in the Riders Handbook, standard Rapide or later Model Black Shadow transmission ratios are:

2.57 to one in First

1.6 to one in Second

1.2 to one in Third

1 to one in Fourth


The current Surtees/Quaife ratios are different than older Quaife ratios. I think they now make a little better use of the extra gear.

First gear is available in two ratios 2.458 to one or 2.07 to one.

Second gear is the same as a standard Vin, 1.6 to one

Third is about midway between second and fourth at 1.34 to one

Fourth gear is a little higher than a standard Vincent 3rd at 1.13 to one

Fifth is one to one.

Fourth gear is the gear that has been changed, lowered from the old Quaife ratio of 1.09 to the new ratio, 1.13 to one.



So according to the info I received from Quaife Surtees, this box does not just give you a new gear between the old Vin 3rd and 4th ratios, it also gives you a new gear between the old Vinc 2nd and third ratios, not a bad thing to have on board.
In addition you have the choice of a little higher or a lot higher first as compared to the Standard Rapide or late model Black Shadow gearing. The 2.458 ratio would be good for bikes primarily used for solo riding and I think it would still be managable with a heavily loaded bike. The 2.07 to one first might be best suited to racing bikes. What was the high Shadow first about 2.2? There is a Shadow in our Club with the high FIRST. On takeoff it sounds like the clutch gets a pretty heavy slip session and that is with two skinny riders on board, probably both add up to not much more than my own weight.
So there seems to be some advantage to the extra gear in the 5 speed, especially now that Quaife has lowered their fourth gear a bit. Talking with owners who have the quaife, the big advantage is that you get a transmission that shifts quickly and positively like a Norton AMC box, rather than somewhat slowly and ponderously like a big old truck.

Terry Prince no longer makes transmissions.

Glen

On edit , from the racing section of the Riders Handbook I see that the high Shadow or Black Lightning first is 2.07, exactly the same as the higher geared first offered by Quaife. I think the 2.458 ratio is the one I will go with, although the higher first might be nice for a bike that is only ever ridden solo and mostly away from stop start traffic.
 
Last edited:

Howard

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Can anyone out there with a Quaife gearbox give feedback. There is one on e-bay and I have been considering placing a bid BUT am unsure what advantages it will bring. I have a B Rapide with 8:1 pistons, BT-H ignition and home-made cams that have more overlap than a Shadow but less than a Lightning (similar to 105 cams ?). At the moment I have a 48T rear sprocket to cope with the local hills but would like to fit a 46T and still have the "grunt" for the hills.

http://www.vincentownersclub.co.uk/photos/showphoto.php/photo/6080/title/camping-in-andorra/cat/674

How much "grunt" do you want for the hills? This photo was taken at about 5000 feet above sea level in the Pyrenees. I don't remember being short of gears or Grunt, but I do remember leaving the 5 speed 900cc Kawasaki I was touring with, for dead on the hills. Standard Rap gearbox, overall gear ratio gives 100mph at about 4800rpm in top - I don't know what that equates to on a "proper" Vin.

H

H
 

Monkeypants

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
I wouldnt change out a properly functioning 4 speed Vin transmission for a 5 speed quaife with an expectation of greatly increased performance.
In a number of situations the 4 speed actually has the advantage. The 3rd gear ratio of 1.2 to one is really well suited to highway use. By dropping into third you get a good power boost at 60mph and the gear is ok all the way to 110mph. On long, steep mountain grades, especially when riding two up, this seems to be just about the perfect ratio.
With the quaife, you have a choice of using fourth, which will not give quite as much pull as the Vin 3rd, or 3rd which will give perhaps a bit more but will put the revs up higher than you may want.

I think the purchase of the quaife makes sense when you are in need of a new transmission.

Glen
 
Last edited:

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I had "blown" up a 4 speed 3 times and finally switched to a Quaife 5 speed about 14 years ago.

Comments

The first batch had a "high" low gear, after that batch of 25 the more standard low gear was the norm. Alyn is right, Smith had one of the first batch for his Shadow special and made some new gears to change first and second to something more useable for the street.

My 5 speed went in with no issues except to check that a certain spaer was on the correct side of a gear. A little bit silly if you ask me, probably by the time they wrote the note, and copied the drawing etc they could have looked at every set of the batch of 25 and made sure they were correct.

I did not have to split the cases, did not have to grind bits off the shifter forks to make them clear each other, or any other dastardly actions. Didn't even remove the camplate spindle, and managed to fiddle it all into place.

I run 9.4:1 Mk2 cams 34 mm Mikuni flatslides and a Supertrapp 2 into one pipe, and travel a lot of 2 up with luggage on that bike. IMHO the 5 speed has a gear for every hill, be it in the Dolomites or the escarpments on the coast of Australia. I run 22 and 48 final drive. I tried 22 and 46 and felt it would be OK solo but was to tall for the full load.

That box has been a click click click shifter for 14 years and only every once in a while if I hit a bump just at the wrong (right?) moment will it overthrow coming back from 4th to 3rd.

Very nice addition after the previous experiences with worn out 4 speed parts. (Try locking the back end solid on the motorway at about 95 mph and see how fast the faith in a worn out gearbox dinishes!)
 
Top