ET: Engine (Twin) Order of installing sealed valve guide components?

[998cc]

Hello all.

My first new thread in these forums. I have a question about installing sealed valve guides. I have replaced the original style guides and line reamed in the past with no problems. The confusion with the sealed guides is when to install the seal itself; if installed prior to reaming the guides they must surely be damaged. How should this be done to achieve the desired results?

Thank you.

Russ.
Vincent owner 41 years
(Sheltering in California)

 

[BigEd]

Hello all.
My first new thread in these forums. I have a question about installing sealed valve guides. I have replaced the original style guides and line reamed in the past with no problems. The confusion with the sealed guides is when to install the seal itself; if installed prior to reaming the guides they must surely be damaged. How should this be done to achieve the desired results?
Thank you.
Russ.
Vincent owner 41 years
(Sheltering in California)

Assuming that you have fitted shorter seal type guides, ET41-S and ET42-S you should ream the guides before fitting the ET44 seals and Et122/S and ET122/1S seal carriers. The guides should preferably be reamed using a long piloted reamer that can be located in the top guide to ensure correct alignment. The same applies to cutting the seats if the guides are not quite concentric.
When I did the valve seal mod on my Rapide the heads had the long standard type guides fitted. I milled away the top of the guide in situ to make space for the seal and seal carrier. (My Rapide came back from Argentina and the guides were and still are cast iron.) These seals are a really good mod. Those original cast guides have been in use for 50,000 miles. I have replaced the seals once when I had the heads off and ground in the valves.

 

[Martyn Goodwin]

Hello all.

My first new thread in these forums. I have a question about installing sealed valve guides. I have replaced the original style guides and line reamed in the past with no problems. The confusion with the sealed guides is when to install the seal itself; if installed prior to reaming the guides they must surely be damaged. How should this be done to achieve the desired results?

Thank you.

Russ.
Vincent owner 41 years
(Sheltering in California)

This may help

Martyn

 

[998cc]

Assuming that you have fitted shorter seal type guides, ET41-S and ET42-S you should ream the guides before fitting the ET44 seals and Et122/S and ET122/1S seal carriers. The guides should preferably be reamed using a long piloted reamer that can be located in the top guide to ensure correct alignment. The same applies to cutting the seats if the guides are not quite concentric.
When I did the valve seal mod on my Rapide the heads had the long standard type guides fitted. I milled away the top of the guide in situ to make space for the seal and seal carrier. (My Rapide came back from Argentina and the guides were and still are cast iron.) These seals are a really good mod. Those original cast guides have been in use for 50,000 miles. I have replaced the seals once when I had the heads off and ground in the valves.

Eddy. Yes, I have the shortened guides and seal carriers (sourced from VOC Spares). The seal carriers need reaming as well, so I assume the best practice would be to install the guides and seal carriers, cool the heads, line ream the guide/seal carriers, reheat, remove the seal carriers, install the X-ring seals then re-install the carriers while still hot. Is there a better sequence of events?

Thank you.
Regards,
Russ

 

[998cc]

This may help

Martyn.

Martyn,

That's good information. I sent my rods to Maughan's in the the 1980's; they fitted one of their crankpins, and it is still running today. Tony was very helpful over the phone.

Hopefully, the seats can be lapped in as I have no seat cutting tools. My guide reamer was specially sharpened on the shank end of the flutes; the shank diameter is .3105" which fits well through the upper guide. This allows the reamer to be drawn in reverse through the lower guide in line with the upper guide. Installing the guides today.

Thank you.
Regards,
Russ

 

[BigEd]

Eddy. Yes, I have the shortened guides and seal carriers (sourced from VOC Spares). The seal carriers need reaming as well, so I assume the best practice would be to install the guides and seal carriers, cool the heads, line ream the guide/seal carriers, reheat, remove the seal carriers, install the X-ring seals then re-install the carriers while still hot. Is there a better sequence of events?

Thank you.
Regards,
Russ

My guides were already installed so there was no heating up done to install guides. I didn't heat anything up when I fitted the seal carriers, I don't think that is necessary. I don't recall having to ream the seal carriers as the hole should be clearance size for the lower valve stem, might be needed if the carriers aren't quite concentric with the hole in the guide. Check that the carrier slip over the valve stem OK first just in case the parts aren't to tolerance.
Good luck, it is a good modification to do.

 

[Martyn Goodwin]

I had my valve guides replaced some time back - paid a professional engineering shop to do it. The lower guide was installed with seal carriers.

Since then I have replaced the x-rings in the lower guides. What I found was that in use the x-rings became quite hard and to remove them i used a pointed awl and just kept at it - the ring came away in many small bits! I did NOT remove the seal carrier. To put the new x-ring it was a matter of using a smooth thin rod (I used a chopstick) and work the new x-ring into place - its fiddly but doable. A bit of oil on the new ring may make it a bit easier.

Martyn

 

[ClassicBiker]

Hello all.

My first new thread in these forums. I have a question about installing sealed valve guides. I have replaced the original style guides and line reamed in the past with no problems. The confusion with the sealed guides is when to install the seal itself; if installed prior to reaming the guides they must surely be damaged. How should this be done to achieve the desired results?

Thank you.

Russ.
Vincent owner 41 years
(Sheltering in California)

Having just installed the sealed valve guides in my Shadow here is what I did. I installed the valve guides. I installed the valve guide retainers, snugly. I reamed both at the same time. Before final assembly I made sure that the valve itself would move easily through the lower guide, retainer, and upper guide. The way I made sure the lower guide was co-axial with the upper guide was I turned piece on the left. The major diameter was turned to match the diameter of the upper guide and the hole was reamed to match the diameter of the reamers I used to open up the lower valve guide and retainer. The face, major diameter, and the diameter for the reamer were all done after the minor diameter was turned. That way the major diameter, the face, and the i.d. are all relative to each other. The hole in the old valve cap on the left is clearance so it does not influence the reamer. The spring is an old Triumph inner valve spring. When all is assembled in the head reamer guide is positive located by the counter bore of the upper valve guide. Once I had reamed the valve guide, I removed the reamer guide. I then placed an upper guide in the head and held it in place with the Triumph spring and the old cap. I then took the valve for that port and made sure it slid through both guides and retainer easily. I gently cut back the valve seats by piloting the Neway Valve seat cutter on both the lower and upper guides. The upper held in place as I have already described. Then I gently ground the valves in piloting in the same way. Once satisfied I disassembled and stored all the parts grouped together for each port. Cleaned everything to within 0.001" of its existence. Making sure there were no traces of oil, cutting fluid, or grinding paste. I installed the seal in the retainer and applied Loctite RC 620, tightened it up by hand as hard as I could with the tool purchased from the club. I let is sit 24 hours to cure. I then assembled everything. Once I got the wires to the coils of the BTH the right way round it fired up and no smoking. Given the current state of affairs I haven't had a chance for a ride but I have started it regularly, once I replaced a leaking gas tap, and have checked that I'm getting oil up to the valve gear.
As you're doing a valve job I would also suggest getting the V3 seal set as advertised in MPH. The pdf has the dimensions of the reamer guide.

Steven

 

[998cc]

Steven.
Thanks for the response. I would have responded sooner; however, we suffered a flood in our home from a broken water line. It will take three months or so to make repairs.

The new guides are in and reamed to just under .374". The exhaust guides lined up with the seats rather well and only needed slight lapping to seal. The intakes (inlets) are off slightly and will require cutting of the seats. Having never used valve seat cutters before, this is new territory. I looked at Neway cutters but have a question about pilots. Did you have to make up a special pilot to align the cutter to properly cut the seat? Is a suitable one available?

Thanks again.

Regards,
Russ
998cc

 

[Martyn Goodwin]

Steven.
Thanks for the response. I would have responded sooner; however, we suffered a flood in our home from a broken water line. It will take three months or so to make repairs.

The new guides are in and reamed to just under .374". The exhaust guides lined up with the seats rather well and only needed slight lapping to seal. The intakes (inlets) are off slightly and will require cutting of the seats. Having never used valve seat cutters before, this is new territory. I looked at Neway cutters but have a question about pilots. Did you have to make up a special pilot to align the cutter to properly cut the seat? Is a suitable one available?

Thanks again.

Regards,
Russ
998cc

Check my post above - it is #3.

Why not find a local engineering shop who do engine head rebuilds and see if they have the kit to do it for you?