Misc: Ignition Optimum Kickstart Ignition Advance

[Cyborg]

BTW, yes the plan is to use the second plug so hence the inquiry about the software. I purchased the appropriate coil with that in mind and want to reap the benefits of the second plug... assuming there are any.
The duel plug conversion was one of my first real projects on the mill, so I'm damn well going to use it. I just have to come up with some of that sky hook engineering and sort out the linkage for the stock decompressor. Real estate around the lifter rod is limited to the point where a normal length ET168 likely won't fit.

 

[timetraveller]

Cyborg, I am sending you a PM re Bill Lawless. Cheers, Norman

 

[Cyborg]

I think I need to clarify what I wrote above a bit. I can see that it can be confusing. The way this ignition works is that during installation it is timed to TDC with an LED and degree wheel in the normal manner (or at least normal for an electronic ignition). After that when the engine has been put into what you want for a starting position you turn on the ignition and and kick . It will fire at 0*/TDC when it sees it for the first time. After that it goes to its programmed settings as shown in the chart above. I think 12* would be a bit too advanced for that first firing, but it should not kick back at 0*. The ignition will reset to the initial resting state if it sees no motion of the encoder, (if it does not start) and the starting sequence firing at 0* TDC will be re-enabled. I do notice that Pazon and some other starting curves are lower than 12 (about 5*) at starting and low idle and flat up to about 500RPM, so I was curious what your experiences have been.

I vaguely remember a conversation with that fellow from Power Arc regarding the firing at 0*. It was in reference to one he installed on a rather large version of a HD engine. He claimed he could hand crank it into life without difficulty.
So I guess my first question is... can you reprogram that initial 0* ?
I know you can reprogram everything else in the way of curves, rev limiter, on time...
A quick look around for info on ignition settings while cranking is all over the map. One reference says most engines are happy at 0* but some require 20. All of them are auto related, so cranking at higher speeds that you'll get with your right foot. Robert is the only fellow I know who can kick a motorcycle over at those sorts of speed.

 

[Oldhaven]

My Rapide is still buried in a snow bound garage up north right now. I am thinking about trying the attached curve profile on mine when I get to see it again next month. With triple sparks on starting the first spark is a single spark at 0* when it sees the TDC slot for the first time.
It has to be this way since the ignition needs this initial information to set itself. The next spark event with the current default program is three sparks at 12*, 5* and 0* BTDC if the kick is a good one and still rolling. With three sparks I cannot program that subsequent spark at 4* or 5* BTDC
as is recommended for Vincents in general since there
must be 5* between sparks for the coil to recover. With 2 sparks the
starting curves after the 0* initial spark could be at 5* and 0* BTDC.
It is possible to get two sequential spark events on a kick with a good long stroke.
This could be even more useful to those with a starter onboard. If the
encoder comes to rest between kicks because the bike does not start, the program resets itself immediately to its initial state to protect against reverse rotation causing problems with the encoder slot
count. If I put a manual switch into the sensor wire not used for the VOES I
could switch on a starting curve like this then switch back to triple
sparks after starting. It's worth an experiment to see if starting becomes more positive. I am also going to change the default curves to set the first triple spark at 10* rather than 12*
I think this "programming your own ignition" thing could be fun.

 

[Cyborg]

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't mention that I flow test my main jets[*] If nothing else, these examples show you can take the physicist out of the lab, but you can't take the lab out of the physicist. Or something like that.

[*] In a test of a dozen '500' jets, 25% of them were as much as 3-1/2 sizes too large or too small.

The photo shows that I had three "blankets" sewn with Velcro to accommodate being wrapped around pipes of a wide range of diameters. One is upside down so you can see the mating strip of (white) Velcro that's on the back side of all of them. The additional small patch of material goes around the sensor's cable to seal that opening. Also shown sitting on one of the blankets is the Innovate "sniffer" that I modified by attaching a piece of brass to keep the inlet from sitting flush against the wall where the air flow is minimum. I probably got the material from McMaster-Carr but it was over a decade ago so I can't be sure. As I mentioned in a previous post, as far as that sniffer goes up the exhaust pipe, it doesn't go far enough to escape the air sucked back up the pipe when the engine is running.

View attachment 26750

Sorry if I sound a little thick, but I'm assuming the blanket just extends the exhaust pipe so there is no oneway valve effect and you chose a blanket as opposed to pipe so it could be used on a variety of exhausts yes/no?

I ordered some bits for my rear sets from McMaster-Carr. I live north of the 49th, but got them shipped to a place in WA state (about 5 minutes from here) to simplify things. When they figured out the order was eventually going to Canada, they had some sort of meltdown and would have cancelled the order if they had caught it in time. They seemed to be worried about it causing some sort of international trade infraction.

I started a separate thread on A/F gauges https://www.vincentownersclub.co.uk/threads/air-fuel-gauge-02-sensor-lambda-sensor.11481/ so if you have the patience to reply, you could do it in that thread if you wish.

Thank you for your post about jets and contraction coefficient. I knew it was a factor (although I didn't call it that) and was wondering what these Chinese jets will be like. Highly unlikely that they have folks sitting at jet calibrating instruments.

 

[Cyborg]

I think this "programming your own ignition" thing could be fun.

Well you have fun... hopefully I can extract the results from you in exchange for beer or eternal gratitude.
I'm still recovering from figuring out the indexing plates on the dividing head. The combination of attention deficit disorder and the Machinery's Handbook is all the fun I can take.

 

[Magnetoman]

I'm assuming the blanket just extends the exhaust pipe so there is no oneway valve effect and you chose a blanket as opposed to pipe so it could be used on a variety of exhausts yes/no?

Yes, sort of. The blanket extends the exhaust, just as an added section of pipe would, but unlike a pipe it collapses on itself to become a one-way valve if the flow tries to reverse. It's provides a "universal" solution, i.e. it's OK but not ideal. I have three Gold Stars so the header to which I welded a bung is an ideal solution for them.

They seemed to be worried about it causing some sort of international trade infraction.

I suspect the law they fear violating is ITAR - International Traffic in Arms Regulations. You may not think bolts for rear sets are weapons, but the regulations are a, well, minefield. Leaving the U.S. with a variety of widely-available commercial software on our laptops is considered illegal trafficking in arms.

 

[ClassicBiker]

I ordered some bits for my rear sets from McMaster-Carr. I live north of the 49th, but got them shipped to a place in WA state (about 5 minutes from here) to simplify things. When they figured out the order was eventually going to Canada, they had some sort of meltdown and would have cancelled the order if they had caught it in time. They seemed to be worried about it causing some sort of international trade infraction.

Magnetoman beat me to the punch on M-C's problem. What is funny is Canada is one of if not the only country that has successfully petitioned and received ITAR exemption, based on the 1963 Defense Development Sharing Agreement.
Steven

 

[Cyborg]

Magnetoman beat me to the punch on M-C's problem. What is funny is Canada is one of if not the only country that has successfully petitioned and received ITAR exemption, based on the 1963 Defense Development Sharing Agreement.
Steven

Wonder if we could apply that to steel and aluminum? Sorry.. me bad... wrong forum.

 

[Cyborg]

Yes, sort of. The blanket extends the exhaust, just as an added section of pipe would, but unlike a pipe it collapses on itself to become a one-way valve if the flow tries to reverse. It's provides a "universal" solution, i.e. it's OK but not ideal. I have three Gold Stars so the header to which I welded a bung is an ideal solution for them.
I suspect the law they fear violating is ITAR - International Traffic in Arms Regulations. You may not think bolts for rear sets are weapons, but the regulations are a, well, minefield. Leaving the U.S. with a variety of widely-available commercial software on our laptops is considered illegal trafficking in arms.

I wonder if a set of small doors similar to the ones used on the front of a doodlebug engine would work or if they would create enough back pressure to alter things.


I checked the letter from McMaster and they just referred to Export Administration Regulations (EAR), but I assume ITAR is buried somewhere in there. They said I could go to the site and read the regs, but I think I'll stick with the Machinery's Handbook, It's probably a little lighter going.