Oils again

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Trevor S once dipped the oil tank of every bike arriving at a National Rally, and showed the results to a friend in the "oil applications" business. Based on these temperature readings (some bikes had done 10 miles, some 300) HIS FRIEND - NOT ADVISED OF WHAT THE READINGS HAD COME FROM (sorry, hit Caps Lock by accident) suggested that SAE 10 was appropriate.
Not an attack on Vic, who merely reports, but IMHO, Maughans are covering their arse(s). I'd like to see their evidence that 40 is the best grade, and how many miles THEY covered establishing this.
I'm running Morris 30, have done for 10,000 miles. "Naturally" the UFM is lagged with radiator foil to keep the oil temperature UP - which means that emulsification is miniscule - and when the Morris 30 runs out, I'll go to 20. Mobil1 is a bit pricey, although really an ideal 0-50.
Not that I think any of this is life-threatening. Vincents will run on anything with "oil" on the label. But don't feed me this stuff about running it on the oils available 60 years ago. The oils you buy now aren't the oils you would have been buying then anyway.
(I've always admired the Tim Kingham approach. Tim recognised that if R was good enough for race bikes, it was good enough for his Rapide. He also (probably) recognised that that Castrol made more money from selling mineral crap than by selling everlasting R. So they invented any number of reasons for not using R in road engines. Bullshit. The only downside is that it leaves orange stains on tee-shirts that cannot be removed. Don't ask. I've used it in my Rudge (three times through the Manx, then demoted to Rudge duty) for 10 years. Change? Every blue moon. Top up? As necessary. Problems? None. Drain the crankcase (it sumps), and it'll start first or second kick after months of inactivity. )

Maughan's recommend a straight Morris 40 whi you can find at Kempton for £15 for five litres.
 

Roger Lord

Forum User
VOC Member
Hi
All this rot about synthetic oil causing the rollers to skid, That all came out when multigrade oil was first introduced, it's just an old wives tail (or is that mechanics tail) Rollers skid anyway as the inner and outer race of any roller are of different diameters so the roller has to skid a bit on one of them. The oil helps to lubricate this. the better the oil the better it lubricates as it ages, just don't use synthetic untill you have run the motor in. You should know that the roller bearings in a gas turbine both the thrust bearings and the support bearings (turbo fan, turbo shaft and turbo prop) are all lubricated with fully synthetic oil They only have roller bearings in them and they run for a lot longer than a Vin between oil changes. I have never heard of those bearings having a problem with skidding caused by the use of synthetic oil.
Use the best oil you have, and don't listen to all the old wives tails. Synthetic oils are use in applications that have both roller bearing and gears, with no adverse effects, in fact most of them do a lot better on synthetic than on mineral oil, My old citroen's gearbox improved dramatically when changed from mineral oil to synthetic oil and that's full of bearings and gears.

All the best Roger Lord
 

Matty

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Completly agree - have run my Comet for 40 years or so on 20/50 with no lubrication problems at all. Modern oils of almost any sort are going to be vastly better than the oils of the 1940/50 era. I do not use straight oils for the simple reason that 40 or 50 grade make the bike much more difficult to kick over (worse for twins) in the Winter and then the oil takes longer to get round the engine. Weather to use synthetic or semi synthetic is another question in older designs of engines - but I do not think it will make a lot of difference.

Matty
 

Howard

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Two problems for me with Synthetic oil.

If you change from mineral to synthetic, do you have to strip the engine, or will the few pockets you can't drain mix with the new oil, without problems?

Are all synthetics and semi synthetics compatible? The beauty of using mineral oils is that in an emergency you can use any mineral (engine) oil to top up.

And the third of the two problems - I haven't a clue which non mineral oil to go for!

Ernie - were you bored, or did you just feel like stirring things up?? :)

H
 

Matty

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Mineral, Semi-Synthetic, and Synthetic can all be mixed as far as I am aware - I have certainly mixed them in the past with no ill effects when I have needed a refill in a hurry.

Castrol R is a different matter and must not be mixed with any of the above mineral oils.
If you have had Castrol R ( which is a vegetable oil I believe) in an engine, it should be stripped and cleaned out before going to mineral oils- which is quite a job because the R forms some deposits which are hard to shift.

As for makes - just make sure the oil has a good API rating such as SL for an ordinary good semi-synthetic good quality car oil. In any case Castrol/Morris/Esso/Mobil/etc. 15/40 car oil would be OK, though I am using Castrol XL 20W50 which is the nearest multigrade version of the old Castrol Grand Prix, though you may have to go through the Vintage Club site to find out where you can buy it local to you.

Matty
 

ernie

VOC Assistant Secretary
VOC Member
Well Howard, I just ask a simple question and get some educational stuff back. I used to think that any modern oil is good enough. I would not use a historic quality monograde because the logic is that a multigrade is thinner than your mono when cold and thicker than your mono when hot. And some, like the oil I mentioned in my first post, is thicker still.

Historic low detergent mono grade is probably good for old engines that have never been stripped because of the historic sludge in the oilways.

The two problems I have read about with modern oils are: first that a high ash content modern oil can cause deposits to build up on your exhaust valve stem and stop it closing. Second, they are leaving some zinc compound out of modern oils which is bad for slidey cam followers like what we got. I was using Halfords 10w-40 mineral for running in my rapide when the front piston nipped up - so never that again. Classic 20-50 was what I always used in the past but I changed to the Halfords cos I could not find any. So now I have found it again I will stick to it - and perhaps add a drop of molyslip for luck.

Nevertheless, 10W-60 sounds interesting and there is someone out there who is using it but I do not know how many miles he does.

By the way hi Tom Gaynor, where have you been?

THis link

http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/0/E5086EF2CA5847A08025789600635023/$file/BPXE-8H6E8W_0.pdf

talks about older technology which should good for us?
 

Vic Youel

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Come on Vic, at the series D meet you told me I was "preaching to the converted" when I was talking to you about the pro's of multigrade oils over monograde??????????:p

Never said what I used. When I first had a twin I put Castrol SAE50 in.....impossible to kick over! Then I used Duckam's 20-50 for years and latterly Comma Europa 15-50. No problems over 20k miles since 1993. So for me....multigrade for twins also gets the oil to the cams etc quickly for a cold engine.

However for the Comet which runs harder and faster, I used Morris 40. ....and for my prewar Triumph, Castrol SAE50 cures the rattles until it warms up...... 30k miles since 1985 with no smoke so far.
 

greg burt

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Roger Lord is correct
Oils will mix
I have been using 10w60 in 2 twins in all compartments for over 12yrs
Greg
 
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