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A: Oil Pipework Oil consumption

robin stafford

Website User
VOC Member
Has any body checked the oil used on their twin . I have no oil leaks apart from the crank case breather to which has been extended to the rear pillion foot rest hanger cannot seem to seem to stop oil from leaking out when stopped about 1 inch dia puddle on the road. I have routed the breather pipe under the engine. would it be better to go upwards with the breather pipe but the route would not be easy . For the last 5000 miles i have been using fully synthetic mobile one 0/30 with the high content of ZDDP with no restrictors in the barrel feeds and no metering wires in the rocker feeds. no smoking on the over run or normal running . would you say that 500 miles per pint is ok . I think most of the loss is going on the road via the breather any ideas
 

nigsey

Active Website User
VOC Member
Has any body checked the oil used on their twin . I have no oil leaks apart from the crank case breather to which has been extended to the rear pillion foot rest hanger cannot seem to seem to stop oil from leaking out when stopped about 1 inch dia puddle on the road. I have routed the breather pipe under the engine. would it be better to go upwards with the breather pipe but the route would not be easy . For the last 5000 miles i have been using fully synthetic mobile one 0/30 with the high content of ZDDP with no restrictors in the barrel feeds and no metering wires in the rocker feeds. no smoking on the over run or normal running . would you say that 500 miles per pint is ok . I think most of the loss is going on the road via the breather any ideas
I have just changed my oil and put Castrol Classic XL 20/50 in my twin, I haven’t run it yet but wondering if it’s too thick having just read these threads. I live in the colder north so maybe should have used something thinner.
 

robin stafford

Website User
VOC Member
Hi I dont know what the bench mark is for a cold start is mine Yesterday was 8 seconds from firing holding a fast tick over to see the oil return start ,. only when it starts to tick over say more than 2/3 mins that oil starts to comes out of the crankcase breather when it is revving more than 2000 or so I cant see any oil
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There's an optimum level for Zddp. There are also various forms of Zddp.
1100-1400ppm seems to be about ideal. More is not better, in fact it seems to reduce protection.
One very expensive oil that claimed extreme protection due to very high Zddp levels(2200ppm), did not do well in testing. It turned to smoke when the scar tester was lightly loaded. That oil was a Redline Synthetic product, one that many fussy owners of vintage bikes were using.
Of the 87 oils that were tested, only 4 had worse results.
One of the four was Duckhams Classic 20/50.

Glen
 
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Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I made sure to send some in for testing.
Vr1 20/50 conventional racing oil gave good protection.
Vr1 synthetic did not.
The tester, Jim Comstock, is not fond of VR1 as he feels it oxidizes too quickly, or did in his Norton. Nortons run a lot hotter than Vincents. His Norton is quite hotrodded so it would likely run a little hotter yet,plus it has high cam loading
He had to admit that vr1 conventional put up very good wear protection numbers.
It does have fairly high friction, as do most conventional oils. That higher friction can be helpful in the Vincent, which tends to be slow in warming the oil.


Glen
 
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MSVH Y3

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Are you still using VR1 or have you switched to something better? I like it because it is easy to find and I have probably done 40,000 miles. Used a Casterol before the VR1.
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I think when the engine is on tick over the returning oil being pumped over the heads and leaking down the rockers and push rod tubes explains why nothing is going back to the tank dispite the return side of the pump being double the size so the crank case fills up an oil comes out of the breather. I still think that I need to slow the amount of oil to the rockers
When we stayed with the Kirkers in 2007, Tim Kirker was working on a problem he was having with oil fouling the plugs.
At the urging of a Clubmate,he had removed the joggle wires.
The bike started to produce some smoke and foul the plugs.
My recollection is that he put the wires back in and both problems went away.

Glen
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Are you still using VR1 or have you switched to something better? I like it because it is easy to find and I have probably done 40,000 miles. Used a Casterol before the VR1.
I'm still using the Vr1 in the Rapides and the other old bikes.
Castrol has some good products as well. If in the UK, Castrol Classic xl would be a good one.
Castrol GTX, which is almost free at Walmart, is a very tough oil. It does have very high friction though, so Ill stay with the Vr1 which offers nearly as much protection but lower friction than the GTX.
In the big engine I'm using Royal Purple HPS 20/50.
That is for the high lift cams. The VR1 conventional would likely be fine, but the Royal Purple does have higher load bearing ability.

Glen
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Glen, I think you have been lucky with your earlier Mk 5 cams and followers.......The later ones do not last.......I got less than 2 years of racing the twin racer using Morris 40 weight castor oil, with twin start pump........the cams and followers showing bad signs of ware. Castor is supposed to be better than near anything in a roller bearing engine, so the cam/followers was very disappointing.
 

TouringComet

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
I just switched to Valvoline VR1 conventional based on the test results Glen has been referring to. I was using Brad Penn, but it is a bit lower in the rankings, plus it is getting harder to find in the stores. Glad to hear VR1 is popular up there with you guys.
 

LoneStar

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
In the big engine I'm using Royal Purple HPS 20/50.
I switched to this oil as well, since it performed near the top and is available in the US on Amazon and Ebay at a reasonable cost.

Note, though, that Royal Purple makes several types of oil. Not all tested well, including some sold at higher prices than the HPS ("High Performance Street") variety.

Given the high wear that seems to afflict Vincent cams and followers, I think oil film strength is critical.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Glen, I think you have been lucky with your earlier Mk 5 cams and followers.......The later ones do not last.......I got less than 2 years of racing the twin racer using Morris 40 weight castor oil, with twin start pump........the cams and followers showing bad signs of ware. Castor is supposed to be better than near anything in a roller bearing engine, so the cam/followers was very disappointing.
Thats unusual, not something I have found although if possible I use SAE 30 Bean oil on the Grey Flash and the racing twin but I have stoped using it on my road Comet but only because of its scarcity on the road
I use it on the road in my 35 KSS and because I dont have lights the battery carrier holds a spare can of R and anyway its sacrilege to use anything else on a cammy. My only time I used a mineral oil in direct preference to R is in my Scott where I think Silkcoline 2 stroke is a cleaner burn
 

roy the mechanic

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have Terrys mk4's ,bought the springs to go with them. Tested the springs on a special jig affair, the results were shocking. the tester could not believe the seat pressures, were nearly 200 lbs too great. Cast your minds back, quite a bit, Vins used to have triple springs,very soon reverted to doubles! Had my followers d.l.c coated for peace of mind.
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I switched to this oil as well, since it performed near the top and is available in the US on Amazon and Ebay at a reasonable cost.

Note, though, that Royal Purple makes several types of oil. Not all tested well, including some sold at higher prices than the HPS ("High Performance Street") variety.

Given the high wear that seems to afflict Vincent cams and followers, I think oil film strength is critical.
Re the Royal Purple, that is correct , the really expensive full synthetic that Jim Comstock had been using, tested quite poorly.
He was using the really expensive stuff to protect the high lift cams in his hotrod Commando engine.
When the cams and follower wore out at 25,000 miles, he started in with the oil testing. He learned that his oil choice was likely the culprit in the early cam failure.
Norton owners from all over the world sent their favourite oil to him for testing. The results were pretty interesting.
You will often hear people claim that all oil is the same as long as it has the appropriate API designation. This is not so.

One of the scariest results came from the Aeroshell oil.
This is a high Zddp product marketed for use in small aircraft engines, Cessnas and similar.
The oil turned to smoke as the first small increment of weight was added to the scar tester arm.
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have Terrys mk4's ,bought the springs to go with them. Tested the springs on a special jig affair, the results were shocking. the tester could not believe the seat pressures, were nearly 200 lbs too great. Cast your minds back, quite a bit, Vins used to have triple springs,very soon reverted to doubles! Had my followers d.l.c coated for peace of mind.
I used RD springs purchased from Terry. The use of RD springs in a Vincent is something that came from Dan Smith and John McDougall a couple of decades ago. John noticed that new Spares club provided spring lost their installed seat pressure after a few thousand miles.
The RD springs are made of the right stuff, so they maintain that pressure for a very long time.
I installed them at 105 lbs.
There is about 5,500 miles to date on the Mk5s and there arent any signs of excessive wear.
As Greg mentioned, there was a later batch of the Mk5 cams and followers that must have had inadequate hardening.

Glen
 

Nigel Spaxman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I used the RD springs from Terry Prince with his lower valve guides and top collars. They had far to much seat pressure and that wore out my cams. I bored out the ET37 top collars so they would pressure the springs less. I also had to modify the ET24 inspection caps so the collars wouldn't hit them. I have wondered if John was getting weaker springs from RD because really I still have to much seat pressure.
 

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