• For any queries related to registration, engine numbers, frame numbers or buying a Vincent motorcycle, the only Club Officials who have access to all the Factory (Works) Records up to 1954 (including dispatch records) and worldwide ownership details gathered by the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club since 1948 are Simon Dinsdale (Machine Registrar) and Jonathan Lambley (Machine Researcher).

    Never rely on Certificates of Authenticity or Dating Certificates issued years ago, nor information provided by sellers. You should always satisfy yourself that you know what you're buying before you bid/buy. Always do your own due diligence.

    Simon and Jonathan can be contacted by following THIS LINK.
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Matching Numbers and Works Order Form


Bobpen

New Website User
Non-VOC Member
Gentlemen, I am desirous to own a Rapide or Shadow, but get somewhat confused. The magic '1,900' between engine and upper/lower frame seems irregular? There are three examples that I have come across (two in Canada) and (one in USA) where each B Rapide holds a HRD Works Order Form yet shows a variation numbering outside of the 1,900. Eg. Two bikes both 1947 'B' Rapides (E: 328, Frame 2327) & 1947 B-Rapide (Engine 350, Frame: 2349) yet both have the Vincent HRD Works Order Form. What is interesting both have a variation of 22 between them! Is it fair to say that the general rule is the 1,900 but there were occasional miss numbering? Is the key then the Works Order Form in alignment with the bike's numbers?. Any insight/guidance? I do not want to purchase a Vincent with is not original. Thank you!!
 

ClassicBiker

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
A friend of mine often points out that 1900 is not the "magic number" when the discussion turns to engine/UFM/RFM numbers. For a period of time it is but not for the entire duration of company activities. Your best bet is if you are solely interested in an original "matching numbers" bike is 1) join the club, 2a) before purchasing a machine ask the seller if you can submit the engine/UFM/RFM number to the club registrar to confirm they match or 2b) ask the seller if he has documentation from the club registrar that the engine/UFM/RFM belong together.
Steven
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Bob
Do not assume the 1900 difference rule. There are some bikes that follow other rules and some bikes which didn't follow any rule and were random engine and frame numbers. The only way to confirm a bike is matching numbers is to consult the original factory records and the only two people with access to those are either Jon Lambley Machine Researcher or myself Simon Dinsdale - Machine Registrar. A contact link is at the top of this page in a black banner or Contact via this link.

So if you have a particular bike in question, get the engine number, crankcase mating number and both UFM & RFM frame numbers from the seller and contact us. If possible get photos of these numbers and we can comment if they look genuine factory stampings because some bikes have owner corrected numbers which is usually called a restamp.
Strangely there are some bikes out there where the number difference is 1900 but according to the factory records they should not be. I wonder how that happened? Restamp?

Simon Dinsdale Machine Registrar VOC.
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
1) join the club, 2a) before purchasing a machine ask the seller if you can submit the engine/UFM/RFM number to the club registrar to confirm they match or 2b) ask the seller if he has documentation from the club registrar that the engine/UFM/RFM belong together.
Steven
Even if the seller has documentation, still go through the process and ask the VOC Machine registrar or researcher because the documents could be fake as such things have surfaced. Unfortunately due to the high value of the bikes it has attracted some suspect characters.

Simon
 

Bobpen

New Website User
Non-VOC Member
Bob
Do not assume the 1900 difference rule. There are some bikes that follow other rules and some bikes which didn't follow any rule and were random engine and frame numbers. The only way to confirm a bike is matching numbers is to consult the original factory records and the only two people with access to those are either Jon Lambley Machine Researcher or myself Simon Dinsdale - Machine Registrar. A contact link is at the top of this page in a black banner.

So if you have a particular bike in question, get the engine number, crankcase mating number and both UFM & RFM frame numbers from the seller and contact us. If possible get photos of these numbers and we can comment if they look genuine factory stampings because some bikes have owner corrected numbers which is usually called a restamp.
Strangely there are some bikes out there where the number difference is 1900 but according to the factory records they should not be. I wonder how that happened? Restamp?

Simon Dinsdale Machine Registrar VOC.
Thank you both so very much for your prompt reply and clearing up the matter. I will certainly forward the numbers to Jon or Simon for their imprimatur!!
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The original plan of say 2000 gap was soon upset by guys with Vincent engined cars buying engines from the factory
 

TouringComet

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
And if you go back farther (further?) in time, the 2000 number came about to account for the pre-war frames built with proprietary engines.
 

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