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Kickstart Stop

youngjohn

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
Non-VOC Member
Is it normal for the kickstart on a twin to hit a 'stop' at the end of its travel when the foot pedal is down to a couple of inches from the ground? Most kicktstarters on other bikes never seem to reach their stop, but my Rapide does when you give it a good kick. The lever is set so that the section below the footrest is approximately horizontal. Just wondering if it can be damaged by repeated contact?
Thanks.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
It is normal for the kick start quadrant to hit the stop. If you are not familiar with the stop then look at Drawing MO 10 in the spare parts list and look for G97, G92 and G98. The stop is spring loaded to take the strain of the impact but having said that it is not unknown to have the lower front end of the kick start cover knocked out by the impact on a scrap or badly assembled kick start stop assembly. If in doubt have a look and make sure the plunger is free to move and the spring is still working.
 

youngjohn

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
Non-VOC Member
Thanks. Can the stop assembly be unscrewed and replaced without disturbing the cover? The gearbox on an old car of mine had a similar arrangement and when removed it was impossible to replace without dismantling the gearbox.
 

clevtrev

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Thanks. Can the stop assembly be unscrewed and replaced without disturbing the cover? The gearbox on an old car of mine had a similar arrangement and when removed it was impossible to replace without dismantling the gearbox.

You will have to take off the cover, if you want to replace the spring and buffer.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
I started out with an Egli which has the engine higher and the seat lower than a stock Vincent. As a result, I indexed the KS to never hit the stop. This allowed the most powerful part of the leg extension to happen exactly when the engine needed the most speed. When I got a stock Vincent, I did much the same. I have watched owners start the bike on the stand and considering that the KS hit the stop when just below the pipe, I understood why they had to climb up so high. Based on my experience, the starting is much easier the further away you are from engaging the stop. You might do some experimenting and set it where you can start it with the least effort. I will also admit that probably 80% of the Vincents I saw and owned had the stops smashed out of the case. As a result, I did not rate it as an effective design and avoided treading in that area. In the ensuing years I never had an issue with any Vincent that I owned, so I decided it was probably a perfectly good design and it was simply prone to abuse.

David
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Mine was broken out of the casing, and repaired with fibreglass which I did not notice. Trevor it was who told me there should BE a stop, and added "weld cover and replace stop" to "modify cover to suit Grosset starter" which he was already doing. David's suggestion is a good one. I know this because when I do kickstart mine, if I kick when just over compression it is prone to kicking back. If I start the kick firmly on the far side of compression, it starts right away. This I take to mean that the "late start" ensures there's lots of flywheel inertia to get it over compression on the firing (or starting) stroke, and so off it goes.
I started out with an Egli which has the engine higher and the seat lower than a stock Vincent. As a result, I indexed the KS to never hit the stop. This allowed the most powerful part of the leg extension to happen exactly when the engine needed the most speed. When I got a stock Vincent, I did much the same. I have watched owners start the bike on the stand and considering that the KS hit the stop when just below the pipe, I understood why they had to climb up so high. Based on my experience, the starting is much easier the further away you are from engaging the stop. You might do some experimenting and set it where you can start it with the least effort. I will also admit that probably 80% of the Vincents I saw and owned had the stops smashed out of the case. As a result, I did not rate it as an effective design and avoided treading in that area. In the ensuing years I never had an issue with any Vincent that I owned, so I decided it was probably a perfectly good design and it was simply prone to abuse.

David
 

John Cone

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
I always prefer to start the Prince stood beside it, it will start normally 1st time, but if i try it on the stand i can't get enough inertia. As Len pointed out to me, my valve lifter is fitted to the same side as the throttle, I hadn't noticed it was wrong, especially for the purests. But you can operate both the trottle & the lifter with one hand and you don't have to lean over the bike.
 

CarlHungness

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Hi:
As soon as I figure out how to post photos I'll post a couple of the modifications I made to the kick starter stop. After breaking thru the G1 kickstart cover on two occasions, I removed the G98,G 97 and the G92 spring. I ran the quadrant thru its motion, scribed a line where it ended and then installed a round boss, with a FLAT filed on it to match the flat on the quadrant. I bolted it on the G50 plate from the rear with a very thick, countersunk washer held in place by a countesunk allen bolt. It has been in place for the past 16-18 years. I just removed it and re-installed it on my new G50 plate as the old one had been bent for years and I just now got around to replacing it. Best, Carl Hungness
 

vince998

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
I always purposly set the kickstart lever a bit lower on the shaft to avoid this.
With the bike off the stand, i set it so the buffer spring is just starting to compress before the set screw holding the foot piece spring just hits the floor.
I´d rather change the screw once a year than have to weld the corner of the cover up!!
This also has the advantage that the pedal just touches the inside of my shin when riding so i know it´s all still there :)
 

deejay499

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Youngjohn. You also asked if you have to dismantle the gearbox, the answer is no, as it is only a dummy cover for the kickstarter and selector gear. (so do not put oil in there either) You will have to remove the exhaust pipes to get the cover off. If possible, go along to your local section and ask lots of questions - though you may also get lots of different opinons! Good luck.
 
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