Ignition timing for twin plug heads

Bill Thomas

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Hello Vince, I would think about 280, but you have to play. I have had trouble with 32mls many years ago and have seen small holes in the float jet !!Also the needle jet and needle will have to be right, even if you have a big main jet petrol still has to get passed the Needle, I would think a 106 needle jet. But Vins love an open exhaust, I built a special one years ago, 2 1 5/8" pipes into a collector box and about 2 1/2" outlet =227 kph average on a flying kilo, Good days !! Cheers Bill.
 

Mark Fisher

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The guys are right about the exhaust. My rebuilt shadow has megacycle cams (similar to mk2) and was S-L-O-W when I had the standard spiral baffle silencer fitted....after a lot of tinkering with carbs ,timing etc we put an old burgess (straight thru) silencer on it, the bike was transformed and has run well ever since. Bit noiser though!
mark
 

Bracker1

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With reference to Phil Irving's Tuning for Speed, the Concentric 32mm should have a 240 main jet. He mentions the Rapide 28mm using a 220 main, so I assume a Shadow with bigger carbies should have bigger jets. Actually, the book has some other hints on exhaust, cams, twin spark, etc. A very good read . Hope this helps, Dan:)
 

Howard

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VOC Member
Vince,

I'm running 32 mm Mk1 Concentrics with air cleaners, on my twin engine.

Pazon ignition (not a clue where it's timed), 2 plug hole heads, but only ever used single plug and decompressors (no help there then), 8.5:1 compression, Mk3 cams, and a Dunstall Decibel silencer which isn't too restrictive.

I'm using 210 main jets, I haven't done a plug chop ( as I said earlier ) but I don't think they're too far out - I'm not racing, and I've had trouble setting up with this awful new petrol, so I haven't worked on top end speed as yet, and my understanding is that concentrics only use the main jet (in anger) over 3/4 throttle.

Other settings are 107 needle jet with the needle in the top (weakest groove) and 3 1/2 slides.

I don't know how the performance is, I've been using Japanese multis for a few years, so I've forgotten what to expect from a Vin. It accellerates crisply through the rev range, will do 40 in 1st, 70 in 2nd, 90 in 3rd and so far 90 in top (2 up) comfortably without complaint, so I don't think the settings are too far out - will see when I get round to pushing it when there are no cameras or spotter planes about.

Bill is right about winding Vin motors up, I think you need to get them moving in third, to make sure the revs are still high(ish) when you change into top, perhaps they need the 5th gear for performance.

The straight through silencer is also essential for peak power. My first track day at Silverstone, I replaced a spiral baffle silencer with a straight pipe half way through the session (no other mods), and that must have given me 10% more power, it was instantly noticable, but too loud for the road.

H

ps - Just seen Dan's comment about 240 jets, I think they're bigger than I'm using (assuming I really am close with 210s) because I'm using air cleaners. 210 are the smallest jets in my box of tricks, so I probably used bigger ones on "real" petrol and bellmouths when I was a kid with a memory.
 
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vince998

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Cheers for the input gentlemen,

Looking through the internet for a burgess absorbtion style silencer, i stumbled across a company in Bournmouth (U.K) called Armour Motor Products, who produce their own version of the Burgess.
In stainless for 89.00 pounds or heavy duty chrome for 69.00 pounds
i´ve just ordered one in stainless (for this price it´s worth the experiment!)
I´ll also order a selection of larger main jets from russel, and keep you all posted.

I´m still non the wiser ref ignition settings so i´ll stay as i am for now.
After the planned fitting 8:1 pistons over winter, i´ll probably get it on a dyno (if i can find anyone around the Westerwald region with one) and see where we go from there.

I use the bike a lot on the road so i don´t think 8.5:1 or 9:1 will be enjoyable for touring?
Any other views here.

Merci
 

Bill Thomas

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VOC Member
Hello Vince, I live near Armours and looked at that silencer for myself some time ago, Inside the tube is a bit smaller than 1' 5/8' and it has a deflector plate which is not good for us, They fit it to make it a bit less noise, It is not easy to knock the plate off, he showed me one that was sent back as faulty but you could see how somebody had took a hammer to it !! He said he could make me a special one with a bigger inside tube and no plate for about an extra £20 ish but it would be my fault if it was too noisey, Sorry to give you bad news, Bill.
 

bmetcalf

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VOC Member
I have an Overlander SS muffler http://www.dropbears.com/o/overlander/classic.htm
http://www.thevincent.com/vin-suppliers.html shows Stuart Towner as the UK rep, but that may be dated info.

My BMW has twin plug ignition and its timing is retarded from the standard setting. I just looked at the instructions for the kit and the amount it dictated by flywheel edge markings, not by degrees BTDC, so no specific help there. HD Sportsters (I think) and air cooled Ducatis have twin plug versions. That might provide a guide for you, after comparing the differences between the single and twin plug specs.
 
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Howard

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Cheers for the input gentlemen,

Looking through the internet for a burgess absorbtion style silencer, i stumbled across a company in Bournmouth (U.K) called Armour Motor Products, who produce their own version of the Burgess.
In stainless for 89.00 pounds or heavy duty chrome for 69.00 pounds
i´ve just ordered one in stainless (for this price it´s worth the experiment!)
I´ll also order a selection of larger main jets from russel, and keep you all posted.

I´m still non the wiser ref ignition settings so i´ll stay as i am for now.
After the planned fitting 8:1 pistons over winter, i´ll probably get it on a dyno (if i can find anyone around the Westerwald region with one) and see where we go from there.

I use the bike a lot on the road so i don´t think 8.5:1 or 9:1 will be enjoyable for touring?
Any other views here.

Merci

I've always used 8.5/9:1 even on 2 up and camping gear touring trips - bit more grunt in the pyrenees comes in handy.

I don't like to knock companies, but I had a stainless exhaust from Armours this year, and it's the worst fitting exhaust ever.

H
 

vince998

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VOC Member
I've always used 8.5/9:1 even on 2 up and camping gear touring trips - bit more grunt in the pyrenees comes in handy.

I don't like to knock companies, but I had a stainless exhaust from Armours this year, and it's the worst fitting exhaust ever.

H

Hi H,
And it didn´t effect flexibility? (torque)
 

vince998

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I've always used 8.5/9:1 even on 2 up and camping gear touring trips - bit more grunt in the pyrenees comes in handy.

I don't like to knock companies, but I had a stainless exhaust from Armours this year, and it's the worst fitting exhaust ever.

H

hi H,

What do you mean by bad fit?
Internal diameters, or positioning of the mounting bracket?
What was the performance and quality like (except for fit-up problems obviously)

Thanks
 
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