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"Historic Vehicle" versus "Not licensed"

Jeremy Churchill 1

Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi there,

I've just bought a Series B Rapide (joining VOC ASAP!!) which has both the buff log book and a V5C. I see that against "Taxation class" the V5C shows "Not licensed".

I have a 1970 Bonneville which is down as a "Historic Vehicle" and expected to see the same for the Vin.

Have spoken to a nice lady at the DVLA who said it didn't matter; both "Not licensed" and "Historic Vehicle" are the same thing - it's just that "Not licensed" was probably the terminology in use when the V5C was issued (July 2005) Both are the same as far as "taxing" declaring SORN, etc.

I don't want to find myself with any DVLA-ordained restrictions on use. Does anyone have any experience of this, or any views as to whether it matters, or whether one is better than the other?

Regards

Jeremy Churchill
 

Jeremy Churchill 1

Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi there,

Thanks for the reply - have just joined.

I'm well aware of the DVLA's lack of consistency, security and accuracy - which is why I asked - photocopier will be busy later! Is it a case of letting sleeping dogs lie, or should I get it corrected now, while I'm doing the change of address?

I've got all the necessary documentation (including a past Certificate of Authenticity from the VOC & copies of Works Record cards, etc.), so there's no problem (E & OE!!) in identifying it as an Historic vehicle.

All thoughts and opinions welcomed!
 

Comet Rider

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dvla

Hi there,

Thanks for the reply - have just joined.

I'm well aware of the DVLA's lack of consistency, security and accuracy - which is why I asked - photocopier will be busy later! Is it a case of letting sleeping dogs lie, or should I get it corrected now, while I'm doing the change of address?

I've got all the necessary documentation (including a past Certificate of Authenticity from the VOC & copies of Works Record cards, etc.), so there's no problem (E & OE!!) in identifying it as an Historic vehicle.

All thoughts and opinions welcomed!

Hi Jeremy,
There has been mention of this problem in the VMCC mag. Basically you will end up having to get the vehicle MOT'd as normal, but then you will have to tax it at your local VOSA/DVLA office, where a replacement V5C will be issued, showing the Vin as 'Historic Vehicle':rolleyes:

Best of luck
Neil
 

Graham Smith

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
Neil's right. I've recently had to do the same thing with one of my bikes. The bike was shown as 'Not Licensed' rather than 'Historic Vehicle'.

The only way you can get this changed is at your local DVLA Office. They definitely won't do it at any Post Office.

You'll need to get an MOT done (make sure they enter all the correct engine and frame numbers on their system).

Once you've got the MOT, you take it along to the DVLA office, and they'll then change the classification over to Historic Vehicle, so you don't pay any Road Fund License.

Be prepared for a long wait though. At our DVLA office, you can only do it one morning per week, and the queue is HUGE made up mostly of Eastern European people registering their cars for use over here!

Hope this helps.
 

Graham Smith

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
So it's definitely better to be "Historic Vehicle" rather than "Not Licensed" then?

As far as I can make out, once you've changed to Historic Vehicle, you can't go back to 'Not Licensed'.

Once you've made the change to 'Historic Vehicle', you must tax your bike each year, by having an MOT and a current insurance certificate.

If you don't tax it, you must declare it as SORN, otherwise you get fined.

If your vehicle is 'Not Licensed', you don't have to SORN it, as you can't ride a 'Not Licensed' vehicle on the road anyway.
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Jeremy,

Welcome – it is great to see that there is now another Vin in Somerset. I do know of three others, in or around Yeovil and one section member occasionally rides to section meetings so may be able to escort you. I hope to see you there but beware, the March meeting will be poorly attended as many of us will be attending the section dinner the night before. It is laughingly called a Christmas dinner but was postponed due to Dartmoor and Exmoor roads becoming impassable just before its normal date.

If you fancy daylight proving runs there are weekly non-VOC bike meetings on Wednesday lunchtimes at Knowstone Picnic Site on the A361, about 15 miles beyond Tiverton. There is normally a Vin or two there. I think we had seven one week, but all makes are welcome.

On the thread subject, once my Comet was MoT’d, after a long time off the road, I tried to tax it at the post office. I filled in the application form as Historic Vehicle but they wouldn’t do it. As I wanted to ride straight away I taxed it as a bicycle, paying the fee as normal, then reclaimed the fee from DVLA when I sent the V5 off to change vehicle class to Historic. As you are about to change the registered keeper to your name you should change the vehicle class at the same time. If the bike has been licensed at any time since the historic vehicle class came into existence you should get those fees refunded to you.

Cheers, Ian
 

sidmadrid

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I recently bought avehicle with a v5.

I thought... change title into my name, and change taxation class at the same time.
It did not work, they sent my v5 back to me.
Do one thing at a time.

Photo copy both sides of the v5,
file them,
then send the v5 with your name in the change of keeper box. It only takes a day or so for it to come back.

When your v5c comes back get a form from the post office and send or take your stuff to your local dvla to tax it.

Or you can go your own way, but this worked for me.

sid
 

Vic Youel

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
DVLA Historic Vehicle

I am thinking of paying tax on my next "qualifying historic class vehicle" and retaining its "motorcycle class" because it is inevitable that the special historic class will eventually have its use restricted. You will not be allowed to convert back from "historic"

The tax for the historic class will not remain zero for much longer. It will only take a publicised incident for the controlling bureaucrats to jump on the legislative/stealth tax band wagon and justify their jobs.

So all those pioneer bikes better not break speed limits on the annual Brighton run next month:)

Vic
 

Jeremy Churchill 1

Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi Jeremy,

Welcome – it is great to see that there is now another Vin in Somerset. I do know of three others, in or around Yeovil and one section member occasionally rides to section meetings so may be able to escort you. I hope to see you there but beware, the March meeting will be poorly attended as many of us will be attending the section dinner the night before. It is laughingly called a Christmas dinner but was postponed due to Dartmoor and Exmoor roads becoming impassable just before its normal date.

If you fancy daylight proving runs there are weekly non-VOC bike meetings on Wednesday lunchtimes at Knowstone Picnic Site on the A361, about 15 miles beyond Tiverton. There is normally a Vin or two there. I think we had seven one week, but all makes are welcome.

Cheers, Ian

Thanks - look forward to it. Glad to know there's that many about. I was going to introduce myself at the Shepton Mallet Show, but it seemed more important to go and collect the new pride and joy . . .

Which Section are we talking about - Dorset or South West?

Thanks also for the tips about taxing and re-licensing.

Jeremy
 

johncrispin

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I work on the general principle that the bureaucrats will ultimately try to bust us down to restricted use due to being non conforming to various bits of environmental legislation. Already bikes are penalised unfairly on road tax. My daughters Toyota 'Aygo' being £40 pa as opposed to my Triumph 955 being £66. They both do 50 odd to the gallon on open roads, of course the tossers in the govt don't recognise this and do not appreciate that the bike will always do better on congested roads because mostly it does not sit with the engine idling away in jams.
I insisted on them changing my V5c to Historic Vehicle, for my 38 Rudge, which they did without any problem ( always retain a copy) but they are trying always to palm us off with this loose definition of 'not licensed', I think now by default, which certainly suggests that policy is due to shift.
I preferred it under the £15pa concession which Ken Clarke introduced. I may be in the minority here but I think using a vehicle for nothing at other road users expense is not on, and there is without doubt a cost, just look at all the faffing about they do. If we pay something we have a voice,, to some degree, otherwise ???
 

Alan J

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
historic tax

I am wary-once you don't pay you MIGHT lose your right to ride at any time, or only be allowed to ride in "official events"!! It's happened to some of our continental friends!! We've lost a lot of liberties under this accursed so called Goverment!!:mad::mad:
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Jeremy,

I was refering to the South West Section which covers Cornwall, Devon and Somerset. The Knowstone meet will be about 60 miles for you, as will section meetings in Morchard Bishop. There may be other section meetings closer to you.

Cheers, Ian
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Referring to johncrispins reply above; we do not pay nothing. Think of what we pay in fuel duty and then with VAT on top of it. The figure that I have heard is that about 10-15% of this tax goes on roads etc, the rest on whatever what passes for a government in this country chooses. :mad:
 

royfox

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
I enquired about registering my Vincent as "historic vehicle" last year at the local DVLA office as the Post Office did not handle it, and was advised to pay the tax and then I would receive a refund later.
The exemption for historic vehicles came about because Kenneth Clarke's PPS was a classic car enthusiast and persuaded the Chancellor to exempt 25-year-old vehicles. One of the first things Gordon Brown did was to freeze the exemption at 1973.
 

Prosper Keating

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
There are a number of options available to those who might eventually wish to sidestep any restrictive legislation against old vehicles, including registering your vehicle outside the EU or within the EU, but in more 'liberal' states like the Isle of Man or Estonia, complete with insurance and so on. As few of us park our bikes and cars on the road, the police don't get in the habit of seeing a foreign-registered vehicle being used all the time in their town.

Here on mainland Europe, the open borders policy might be annoying in that we are swamped by unpleasant foreigners begging and stealing while the cops stand on crossroads penalising middle class car drivers to raise revenue for financially and morally bankrupt government, but it also means that one can easily claim to have moved one's foreign-registered vehicle outside the country every couple of months in order to avoid having to register it locally.

When the Eurocrats eventually get around to an EU-wide system, alternatives will have to be explored. Some of us are already 'exploring' them, which is why, as French members have noticed, there is at least one Vincent motoring around Paris on US plates, absolutely legally. They're always up to date, too, so the cops are pretty limited in their options and the day that government in the EUSSR whacks us with limited use rules, there'll be very little they can do to a vehicle registered legally outside the 'community', especially if the rider is in possession of a foreign licence or, failing that, written permission from the person whose name appears on the documents to ride/drive the vehicle.

Most cops leave old vehicles alone anyway. You just have to start thinking 'laterally' and in advance in order to get around the restrictions that will be placed on you in order to pander to eco-nazis and other killjoy elements, ot to 'make work' for bureaucratic drones or generate column inches for the politician who pushes the rule through. Use the rules against the rules. It's the best way. Always has been. And look on the bright side: Vincents will only be worth a few grand once people aren't allowed to ride them more than ten miles a year in pre-arranged convoys.

On a more mundane level, I have always wondered by all these worthy bodies like the BMF and other riders' rights groups don't push the environmental advantages of motorcycles more. In fact, as far as I can see, they don't ever promote this aspect of motorcycles. I used to ask the BMF reps who came to us to whine every time we showed a rider without a helmet in our magazines what they actually did for bikers and I never got a really coherent answer from any of them.

Regarding classic vehicles, the environmental advantages should be pushed for all they're worth too. A 1940s 1000cc or 500cc motorcycle consumes far less than its modern equivalent (side valves aside!) in terms of petrol, oil, tyres and other consumables and won't end up in a landfill site. Yet many of the public see them as quaint but dirty, polluting old things that should be banned.

Plus...modern bike manufacturers (this applies to cars too) see us as an embarrassment and a potential threat because they don't their customers to start asking themselves why they buy a motorcycle or scooter that loses up to 30% of its 'value' as soon as it exits the dealer's showroom, costs a bomb to insure and to maintain and is often obsolete two seasons later because the makers want to sell new ones. That's why, for instance, the publishers of magazines about modern motorcycles ignore older stuff. Their advertisers would get annoyed if they ran any features about old bikes, especially old bikes still in everyday use. I know...because I used to work for these magazines.

I accept that the various classic vehicle groups do some sterling work but I wish they'd be a bit more aggressive. Look what pandering to bullies did for Hitler's victims in the 1940s. All those countries trying to deal with "Herr Hitler", all those Jews obediently lining up to be gassed because they felt it was best not to make trouble. The people governing us might not be fixing to gas us all, it's true, but make no mistake in understanding that they have dictatorial mindsets and will always pick on groups who can't or won't fight back in order to look strong and efficient to the public at large.

PK

PK
 
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royfox

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
A greater threat than restricted use for our bikes is a little-known EU law: the late Alan Clark, Minister in Thatcher's Government and historic vehicle enthusiast (he owned 18), told me that it was actually illegal to drive a vehicle in the EU if it was more than 15 years old.
 

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