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help to determine authenticity and value of 1017 cases

Spqreddie

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member

Dear All,

I might have found a pair of cases from which to start my Vincent project/adventure.
Before to buy them I would like to receive some guidance and know what do you think about those cases and if you think that the numbers looks correct.
I’ve tried to contact the Technical Officer and the Spare Liaison Officer through the main site but no luck, (may be somebody could share their direct e-mail contacts with a private message?)

I'm not an expert in Vincent fonts or Vincent number pad to determine if it has been grinded or altered.
What do you think in general about the casting? it looks correct? ( a part of course the welding repair around the front primary sprocket)
The machine registrar has confirmed the bike left the factory in Sept 1948. Mating number are K 14.

How much do you think those could worth? (Knowing also that have been repaired and never tested since?)

PLEASE REPLY WITH A PRIVATE MESSAGE ON THIS.

I know it might be an hazard just to start from scratch from somebody that never had a Vincent but every "dormant" Vincent deserve to come back on the road, right!?

Thanks for all the help you might be able to give me,
Best Regards,

Eddie

1017 Engine Cases (1).jpg1017 Engine Cases (4).jpg1017 Engine Cases (5).jpg1017 Engine Cases (2).jpg1017 Engine Cases (3).jpg


 
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A_HRD

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Eddie,

I would say with complete confidence that the engine number is correct and unmolested. The crankcases appear to be in good condition, do they come with the original covers?

The weld repair around the primary case sprocket looks to be well done; it presumably came about after a primary-chain breakage whereupon the chains wraps around the engine sprocket and forces the cases outwards (don't ask me how I know (twice!)). Put a straight edge across the chaincase joint in various positions to confirm alignment and an adequate seal. There is a possible lingering problem though. The welding may have distorted the alignment of the main-bearing housing on the drive-side. This can only be determined via some very careful measuring - often needing specialist equipment. But before you do this, you could fit all new C3 main-bearings (heat cases to 200C first) and have a dummy shaft ground to size minus about 0.001". You should be able to slide this through the bearings, with oil, without undue force... by hand. And the shaft should turn by hand without tight spots. If not you may need to have the bearing housings professionally line-bored and re-sleeved. There are Vincent specialists in the UK who do this. It is well worth doing and gives the bottom-end a new lease of life for several decades.

Even though you are about to do it the hard way in getting yourself a Vincent, I wish you every success.

Peter B
Bristol, UK.
 

chankly bore

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
Non-VOC Member
I agree with Peter. I had set of H.R.D. crankcases F10AB/1B/23## that had an identical style of engine number. As well as measuring the mainbearing registers you might as well go completely septic and check the crankcase mating surfaces and the roundness of the cylinder bore holes. The mechanical miscreant that had my 'cases decided to skim .030" off the driveside jointing face to get an oil-tight motor!!! Think about how many problems this causes, folks. Just warning you, a lot can happen to a lump of metal in 60 years. By the way,if you are thinking about NEW 'cases instead they can have wrong tolerance (too tight) bearing registers and oil pump bores that are deviant.So its Hobson's Choice as we say out here in the Colonies.
 

pcavallo

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Hi to all. I have absolutely no idea of how much would be worth a couple of crankcases like these, as I have a friend who has such an item and could sell it to me.

How could be a fair-for-both price? (buyer and seller, he's a friend of mine and I must look for the maximum fairness in this transaction).

And, moreover, would the Spares Company be able to perform a complete check of the crankcases before rebuiding the engine?

I don't ask for the availability of the necessary spares, as I am quite certain the Sp.Co. has all of them!

Regards and thanks to all who will help and/or suggest!

Pierpaolo Cavallo
 
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Spqreddie

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Thanks for your tips!
here another picture showing the mating surfaces of the cases with the primary cover (yeasterday the website didnt allow me to load it dont know why).
it looks fine, but surely i'll seek advice of expert techincians to check tolerances and fixing them if necessary without tring to do the job myself just risking of damaging the cases more...
1017 Engine Cases (6).jpg
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Eddie, you can buy new crankases from the Spares Company for about £3,000, 3,600 euros. Some others charge less. That should give you an upper price. You would have the covers as extras, which is added value, but then they are old, repaired and might need the main bearing housings and other things to be remachined. Assuming that they can be recovered and used to make a good bike then somewhere in the range of 1.500 to 2,000 euros would be a good point from which to start and haggle. Good luck.
 

Pushrod Twin

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member


I know it might be an hazard just to start from scratch from somebody that never had a Vincent but every "dormant" Vincent deserve to come back on the road, right!?

Dead right! Eddie,go for it! That set of cases are eminently suitable for rebuilding. (They are complete with gearbox, 1398's arent!!) The numbers look authentic, very similar to 1398's. Timetraveller has published some great articles in MPH about facing the mating surfaces flat & having mains bearing bores sleeved. There are people who can check all of the dimensions against drawings & remachine where needed. That will cost a reasonable amount in any bodies currency, get some estimates then remove that cost from the 3600 Euros Timetraveller quoted to give you a starting point. His sugested start point sounds good to me.


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Spqreddie

Well Known and Active Forum Website User
VOC Member
Thanks too all 1017 cases are in my shed now..

Dear All,

thanks for all your tips, 1017 cases are now in my shed togheter with UFM, RFM, Seat, Tank, and a some more bits....
a few years probably beofore having them on the road again.. and a few more of my posts here to get the best tips on the rebuild!

Soon and thanks again,
Eddie


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