Help identifying 1000cc block

[Whiteshadow15]

Wanted to ask if anyone would know anything regarding this engine stamped with a non-Vincent VIN number.

Naturally I have asked Simon but since it’s not an original Vincent number there wasn’t any information to be had.

F1AB/85732

Its difficult to read in the pictures but it looks accurate. Any idea of any other builder or anyone who used a similar format?

It’s at minimum 35 years old, most likely older than that.

 

[Robert Watson]

Any mating numbers on them?

 

[Whiteshadow15]

I should have mentioned. Yes mating numbers were provided to VOC

 

[Albervin]

Did you give the mating numbers to Simon? He should be able to draw some conclusions from them . Those C/C numbers look very uniform and sharp which is strange considering the overall condition of the cases. I would guess it has been over stamped for nefarious reasons. I can think of no other good reason to have such meaningless numbers.

 

[Vincent Brake]

if you put some more pictures here from various directions, and internals one (being Robert W amongst others) can guestimate if its a genuine casting or not.

 

[vibrac]

On the new crankcase engine for the Egli Racer I contacted Simon for a new number which he issued so it could be added to his records I think its good sense to do that for security and continuiity it doesnt take long and its better than some silly and confusing number off the top of your head

 

[Simon Dinsdale]

Its a confusing one this. When Whiteshadow15 asked about these crankcases nearly a year ago I couldn't determine from the works records what the original engine number may have been. Whatever has happened to these cases happened a long time ago as a VOC member reported exactly the same engine and its numbers in USA in 1975 so its not a recent thing.

The initial assumption was could it be engine 5732 and somebody had "corrected" the cases to match a typo error on a registration document / title. The problem with that is engine 5732 was a Comet according to the factory records and still exists elsewhere.

Usually engine numbers get changed by owners for one of the two most common reasons, with a 3rd possible reason added which should make every every buyer cautious of doing their due dilligence before buying :

1. Happened a long time ago when the value of the parts was low and the owner notices the registration / title paperwork for the bike didn't agree with what was stamped on the bike due to typo errors etc. This was before matching numbers was an issue and the owner just found it easier to just restamp the metalwork to agree with the paperwork rather than get the paperwork / title corrected with the authorities.

2. Happened more recently, usually within the last 25 years with an aim to make non mating parts appear to be a matching numbers bike or to "upgrade" a Rapide to a Shadow or Lightning with the intention to fraudently increase the value of the bike.

3. The parts are stolen and so their true identity has been removed!!

Simon

 

[Marcus Bowden]

A gentle wire brushing wouldn't have gone amiss to give a clearer picture of the numbers, it's not as if you are removing paint, or is it not to disturb the patina !!

 

[Whiteshadow15]

Here’s a few more pictures of the timing side

 

[Whiteshadow15]

found the engine listed in an issue of the Chicago newsletter in 1975. Looks like it’s always been a mystery.