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hello from a state of disassembly.

lindie

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
g'day. am currently readying my little girl for use after a long hiatus of stagnation. may as time goes by drop in to pick a brain or two.

she's equipped with a 45 and 48 toother on the rear hub and i'm wondering whether one would be more suitable for the occasional trundle with a painfully low national speed limit of 60/70 mph. meant to be lightning cams and by notes scribbled in the owners manual 8 to 1 slugs at original bore by the "STD" stamp i saw through the plug hole (is there a determining stamp on the crown as to the compression ratio?). bottom end is rapide though no idea of the internals.

it won't be receiving a new chain till it's ready for roadworthying so the 45 is likely to be the one used for any initial test rides. rear wheel is a 19" and by my reading 100 mph would be 4500, and 4800 rpm, which by my calculations is 2700 and 2880 at the 60 mph which i'll be tentatively required to stick to. this is my first big banger v twin having only dads gs1100g suzie and my mz es250/2, dt200 yammie and rg250w suzuki two strokes as reference and a run on a borrowed harley that i thought was an overrated and weight piece of ****.

obviously the 48 would be better in traffic but the plans to use it for mainly highway runs. is the near standard 45 going to be the better for that and user friendly enough round town too as the chain isn't notably worn? or will the cams and comp knock the low speed torque around and make the 48 a better proposition?

thanks for your time, glen.

p.s. will be joining the VOC soon as i'm more suitably prepared now than this time last year. apologies to Vince Farrell and David Hills for the delay.
 
Last edited:

deejay499

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Lindie. A 45t rear sprocket is Lightning gearing and check that the front is only 21t as 22t was also used for Lightnings. Personally I would start with the 48t to give you easier take off until you are more used to the bike then decide which way to go. Have you got a standard Vincent clutch, as they are a bit of an acquired taste and can be sharp,:( so again the 48t could be better, certainly in traffic.
Good luck with it, DJ
 

lindie

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
thankyou dj. don't think there were any nonstandard clutch conversions around when she was spannered together(late sixties, early seventies. family owned bike but owner passed on.) but i haven't popped the clutch cover yet or been at the front sprocket to check it out. to all reports it was used exclusively for high speed thrashing in the 140mph region so i'll have to have a look to verify. bloody clutch cable is broken unfortunately and the decompressor mechanism appears to to have been removed so a cable swap isn't feasible. i would of thought that the single plate would be a nice operation if nothings warped or the springs aren't stuffed. i'll defer to you on it though as i've not tried it.

evidently the length of stroke and two pots acting as a unit would endow a fair whack of torque, but where would you expect the first good usable range to kick off? how low are they generally to idle and are the flywheels pretty weighty? they look like a decent sort of lump of steel.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
If your not familiar with the unique design of the Vincent clutch you are in for a surprise !! Properly set up it's superb , light and progressive , but if not it will anywhere from difficult to horrible !! Don't let anyone persuade you to fit any other clutch though , it's one of the Vincents defining features.
Low speed torque is brilliant , these motors have a very wide torque curve.
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Meet up with the local section. (Although here in the US, that could be 100's of miles away. Maybe the same for you in Oz.) Another owner's bike and advice would give you some clues.
 

lindie

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
thankfully she came with an owners maual, paul richardson's "the vincent", 1960 printing of motorcycling magazines maintenance series on the B through D range, and a spare parts list for B and C with the 52 and 54 supplements. the clutch doesn't look that daunting and evidently works well if set up right or they'd never have achieved any status in the early days as a superbike. the drum system must have thrown the industry on it's ear when new i expect.

nother brief question or two if i may. when did the concentrics come out across the board as it's got the later flange type inlet manifolds on it and a soon to be evicted pair of wal phillips 1" 3/16 injectors?

and on the points end of the magneto is a cap with a wire draped out of it. i'm assuming this is a kill switch type apparatus but the wire currently runs to nothing. is this to simply be earthed out through a switch dirt bike style as with a lack of valve lifter there'd be no quick "polite" way of otherwise shutting it down.

dumb question i assume but do engine parts come up in a classifieds section of MPH from time to time? a long shot i know but if someone had an irreclaimable bottom end with a salvable valve lifter it'd save me an ankle in years to come. luckily the bulk of the rest of the bike is all there though in varying states of kitsch. quite why anyone would have chromed that much of anything is well beyond my reckoning.

thank you all for your help and comments. theres another one at least in the region but as i don't know the owners i'd rather deal with those who utilise the net the same as i. the other forums i belong to for varied vehicles are generally a font of information and less straining than picking just one persons brain in person plus whatever is written up can be returned to for reference at will.
 

Tnecniv Edipar

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Parts are increasingly less frequent in MPH. Most stuff tends to go on ebay these days. Concentrics were introduced in the '60's.
 

lindie

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
my apologies. brain is off somewhat at present due to the time. we may be a little ahead of you as for time zone.

had mean't the monobloc i'm afraid, not the concentric.
 

lindie

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
i have lindies engine as the desktop on my work computer and the number of customers who say "i had a harley (bloody infidels!) once, forever breaking **** on it. i've got some bits up the back of my shed for sale if you want them" is heartbreaking. if it was as simple as that though i guess there'd be no thrill to the chase. might put a few feelers out on ebay as well i guess though making those parasites (ebay over here tend to be treacherous at best) richer irks me somewhat. still, the first ride is still a way off so i guess i've time to make arrangements adequate to the survival of my right leg. theres good compression there, thats for sure.

briefly, i've struck a wall trying to reply to a thread or two. is this normal or are my settings off?

think i might catch forty winks for now as i keep leaving letters out of words.
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Magneto kill switch

The wire from the mag cap goes to earth, generally a horn button. I don't use mine (something else to go wrong...) instead using the valve-lifter.

thankfully she came with an owners maual, paul richardson's "the vincent", 1960 printing of motorcycling magazines maintenance series on the B through D range, and a spare parts list for B and C with the 52 and 54 supplements. the clutch doesn't look that daunting and evidently works well if set up right or they'd never have achieved any status in the early days as a superbike. the drum system must have thrown the industry on it's ear when new i expect.

nother brief question or two if i may. when did the concentrics come out across the board as it's got the later flange type inlet manifolds on it and a soon to be evicted pair of wal phillips 1" 3/16 injectors?

and on the points end of the magneto is a cap with a wire draped out of it. i'm assuming this is a kill switch type apparatus but the wire currently runs to nothing. is this to simply be earthed out through a switch dirt bike style as with a lack of valve lifter there'd be no quick "polite" way of otherwise shutting it down.

dumb question i assume but do engine parts come up in a classifieds section of MPH from time to time? a long shot i know but if someone had an irreclaimable bottom end with a salvable valve lifter it'd save me an ankle in years to come. luckily the bulk of the rest of the bike is all there though in varying states of kitsch. quite why anyone would have chromed that much of anything is well beyond my reckoning.

thank you all for your help and comments. theres another one at least in the region but as i don't know the owners i'd rather deal with those who utilise the net the same as i. the other forums i belong to for varied vehicles are generally a font of information and less straining than picking just one persons brain in person plus whatever is written up can be returned to for reference at will.
 

lindie

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
thanks tom. am hoping to get out to the bike this weekend to play on it for a few hours and sus out quite what else i'm missing in the way of bolts and easily noted parts. may hopefully get it fired and running to some degree if all goes to plan but she's slept this long so another month or two can't hurt. would like to hear that all goes round and round as per how it should, then bite the bullet and pluck off the timing case to see what i'm missing. might try to sort out the earthing wire while i'm at it in case she does run.
 

stumpy lord

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
mag kill button

It is a much safer to use a mag cut out button to stop your engine Tom, than use the valve lifter, for it is not un known for the little roller to drop out of the ET69 valve lifter with potentialy disasterous results.
stumpy lord.
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I'm a firm believer in "rolling restorations". Put some miles on it - I put about 5000 on mine - and at the end of it you have a clear idea of what needs to be done. Then you get it done. A good example is breathers: it took me quite a long time to realise that the answer to my problems wasn't a new breather system, but to address the problems (piston and valve guide blow-by) that was overwhelming the standard system. Drilling holes in the chaincase inspection cap had the un-anticipated (by me) effect of letting the engine breathe through the chaincase, and rendering ineffective the "real" breather. When I plugged the holes I'd drilled, the chaincase oil level stopped changing...
For me the result was to go from something that went pretty well for a 50 year-old bike, to something that went like sh*t off a shovel, a bike that lived up to its myth.

The alternative is to look at the bits, not knowing how they perform together, replace everything you think needs replaced, then start the sorting out procedure from scratch, but with new bits. It works, but it takes just as long, and is much more expensive.

A question you asked: when does it "get on the cam". Mine does it about 2500 rpm, about 50 mph in top (21 x 46). It goes better if I "short-shift". It would be interesting to put it on a dyno and get a torque curve. When torque falls off, acceleration follows suit.

thanks tom. am hoping to get out to the bike this weekend to play on it for a few hours and sus out quite what else i'm missing in the way of bolts and easily noted parts. may hopefully get it fired and running to some degree if all goes to plan but she's slept this long so another month or two can't hurt. would like to hear that all goes round and round as per how it should, then bite the bullet and pluck off the timing case to see what i'm missing. might try to sort out the earthing wire while i'm at it in case she does run.
 

lindie

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
had a hunt through some of the spares i found near the bike and am puzzled by one or two things. did the comet have an ESA in the ilk of the twins? and do the ESA on the twins have three lobes as per the parts list or two as per the tech drawing here: http://www.voc.uk.com/primarydrive_comps.pdf
reason being that the list registers 18 springs for the ESA of both, and in among the spares is a single chain run sprocket with a two lobe cam setup.

also found a 46 tooth chainwheel from the rear wheel, three new compression (down one for a full set) and two oil control rings, a pair of lodge plugs and two new klg plugs with a blue insulator body. two dead new primary gaskets that can only serve now as a pattern, lots of seals and fibre gasket rings, a set of triple valve springs and a used looking valve guide and retaining ring. having a nightmare finding affordable bsf bolts in my neck of the woods though. may have to bite the bullet and get some made.

on the topic of the valve lifter, i read somewhere that the mk 2 cam runs a smaller base circle that leaves the cam followers lower down in a region where the valve lifter arms would otherwise interfere with their full closing. any of this ring true to anyone here? perhaps i've been dreading the absence of something that is best left out in my bikes case.

on another track, is or has anyone run their bike with mikuni flatslides? i'm planning to utilise a pair of vm28ss carbs i have left over to try and get her up and running and maybe keep them there if they prove usable. thoughts on basic jetting would be great if someone has thrown the hard yards of development in before me.


i reckon that might do for tonights little novel. apologies for my ramblings. glen.
 
Last edited:

Ian Savage

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Esa

The assembly is identical Comet or twin, with the exception of the sprocket single row on comet triple on the twin.
The cam has three lobes, the drawing is incorrect, see M014 parts list drawing attached, get yourself a set of these ASAP.
Ian
 

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Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I am running VM34s as is Dan Smith. We jet similar but not identical. He has 10:1 squish pistons, bigger pipes and siamesed Supertrapps, bigger valve openings etc etc and I have 9.4:1 with std Mk11 but twin pipes into a single 2 1/4" collector and a single Supertrapp. I think you may find that these are two stroke carbs - and that creates a big learning curve for jetting (takes two hands worth of fingers to count the seized pistons). I can look up what I have in there if and when you get close to fitting them, but not sure how much it would help on the 28mm.

Robert
 

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