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Heavier Front Brake Cables

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Who sells heavier Front Brake Cables? I searched on this forum and it didn
t come up.

Thanks for your help.
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I just bought two sets today - I'll send you some Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I think these are made by DJ cables?, he told me today the list of people he supplies. I bought two sets to put into stock as spares just today at the Kempton Classic Bike Show - see the photo's I am about to post. If you send me your address details off forum with a PM then I'll send you a set, I have them on my bike, they are superb.

Regards

Stuart (Metcalfe)

Who sells heavier Front Brake Cables? I searched on this forum and it didn
t come up.

Thanks for your help.
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Heavy Cables

Hi,

I don't know about the cables from DJ but I can recommend cables supplied by Derek Sayer. They have longer adjusters and non compressible outers. I have always found his service to be excellent as well.

Cheers, Ian
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
These are one and the same.....

DJ makes them for Derek, so they are the same thing. There is a prototype in development with the upper in stainless tube for stiffness which is said to be a further improvement.

Stuart


Hi,

I don't know about the cables from DJ but I can recommend cables supplied by Derek Sayer. They have longer adjusters and non compressible outers. I have always found his service to be excellent as well.

Cheers, Ian
 

yugdab

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Derek Sayer has worked quite closely with DJ for years.
Derek has plugged away at the improvement of Vincent front brakes as something of a personal quest. He went to DJ with his idea of heavier cables and had some made, these proved successful and Derek shared his findings with DJ and was quite happy for DJ to produce these for other people. In point of fact Derek currently supplies a different version than that which DJ sells; the inner cable in the Sayer version being one gauge heavier.

As for the prototype in development using the upper in stainless tube, this is again another Derek Sayer project (based on a hypothesis of brother John). Derek has told DJ that he is working on this, so one has to assume this is what DJ was relating to you (pity he did not mention that the pioneer of this is a keen and dedicated VOC member).

Interestingly Derek tells me that as he gradually elliminates free play and flex from various parts, then the next weakest item in the chain begins to 'give'; the current component under scrutiny giving considerable food for thought. I will say no more than that as this is not my project to make detailed disclosures.

DJ also makes and supplies, to Derek's specifications, solid speedo drives for prewar machines; DJ makes them under a hand shake agreement with Derek. Naturally this product is also available from Derek.

Anyone looking to improve the performance of the standard brake set up on a Vin would do well to consult Derek.
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Just to be clear.......

Hi Yugdab,

I think your posting demonstrates I may have caused you some mis-understanding - please let me straighten that out.

DJ explained his relationship with Derek, and others in the VOC - he was clear, open, straightforward and honest about it. he did not in any way claim the development for himself, but explained the role Derek had played and that the stainless flex pipe was a Derek request and prototype. DJ made it for Derek to his specification and has since made a second prototype having had some feedback on the first.

He struck me as a thoroughly decent chap.

Hope that sets any possible mis-understanding straight.

Bruce - will post yours off tomorrow or Tuesday.

Regards

Stuart.




Derek Sayer has worked quite closely with DJ for years.
Derek has plugged away at the improvement of Vincent front brakes as something of a personal quest. He went to DJ with his idea of heavier cables and had some made, these proved successful and Derek shared his findings with DJ and was quite happy for DJ to produce these for other people. In point of fact Derek currently supplies a different version than that which DJ sells; the inner cable in the Sayer version being one gauge heavier.

As for the prototype in development using the upper in stainless tube, this is again another Derek Sayer project (based on a hypothesis of brother John). Derek has told DJ that he is working on this, so one has to assume this is what DJ was relating to you (pity he did not mention that the pioneer of this is a keen and dedicated VOC member).

Interestingly Derek tells me that as he gradually elliminates free play and flex from various parts, then the next weakest item in the chain begins to 'give'; the current component under scrutiny giving considerable food for thought. I will say no more than that as this is not my project to make detailed disclosures.

DJ also makes and supplies, to Derek's specifications, solid speedo drives for prewar machines; DJ makes them under a hand shake agreement with Derek. Naturally this product is also available from Derek.

Anyone looking to improve the performance of the standard brake set up on a Vin would do well to consult Derek.
 

yugdab

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Thank you.

Very adequately and speedily straightened out.

My only concern was that Derek Sayer (one who does not do the Internet), a dedicated VOC chap, should get the public credit for his efforts.
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks yugdab,

I didn’t have quite the specific knowledge that you have clarified, but have known Derek as the originator and supplier for a considerable period. He has supplied me with C and D rears and long and short fronts, all of which have proved excellent and long lasting.

For those who don’t know him, I believe he has also been involved in several other projects of benefit to the Vincent world, notably the successful production of DRAT crankcases, being the D of the group who developed them. He also “sponsored” the production of the WCS leather grain panniers.

To paraphrase you - Anyone looking to improve or maintain any bits on a Vin would do well to consult Derek.

Cheers, Ian
 

yugdab

Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Sorry No.
Derek has an adverse reaction to computers and any way he spends all his time up to his elbows in engine oil, a keyboard would not last a week!
If you want to contact him, drop an email to his brother John and ask him to pass it on, they live close by.
Give you phone number in the message, and the best time to contact you.
southlondon499@voc.uk.com
 

peterg

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Howdy Bruce,

As in heavier than John Healey's?!

My answer to that dilemma with the Red Rap after grimly grappling with a front lever tugging fruitlessly on some NOS concrete compositioned and riveted Ferodo's was to simply raise the coeficient of friction by fitting modern, longer bonded linings for $12/shoe from my local truck clutch/brake shop.

Supplied slightly thicker than stock to give latitude in radiusing, they are softer and effort required to stop with this 250lb'r aboard can be achieved with 2 fingers with excellent feel imparted by no more than a bridge plate affixed to the balance beam pivot. Ever the realist - and in a nod to Tom Gaynor's previous (logical) observations on the same subject - they're no match for the discs on your Buell, but in lieu of lacing up a 12 inch Grimeca twin leader to your hub, the best bang for the buck.

The outfit's name is Laycook (901 523 1418). Very much a black smithy type gig, no website, no formalities, no need to mention your application. Takes about 2 weeks. I keep stashes for my other machines in rotation.
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I didn't check with Coventry Spares. But Stuart has graciously provided me with a set and I'll be installing them soon. I had Ferodo green linings bonded on and turned to the drum ID's and I have the KTB boomerang on the beam pivot bolt and the Doug Hollis plate stiffeners per http://www.vincentownersclub.co.uk/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2842 and http://www.vincentownersclub.co.uk/photos/showphoto.php/photo/2843, so the cables will be the icing on the cake. All fairly discrete non-standard features, although the long cable outer sheath diameter is mighty impressive.

Howdy Bruce,

As in heavier than John Healey's?!

My answer to that dilemma with the Red Rap after grimly grappling with a front lever tugging fruitlessly on some NOS concrete compositioned and riveted Ferodo's was to simply raise the coeficient of friction by fitting modern, longer bonded linings for $12/shoe from my local truck clutch/brake shop.

Supplied slightly thicker than stock to give latitude in radiusing, they are softer and effort required to stop with this 250lb'r aboard can be achieved with 2 fingers with excellent feel imparted by no more than a bridge plate affixed to the balance beam pivot. Ever the realist - and in a nod to Tom Gaynor's previous (logical) observations on the same subject - they're no match for the discs on your Buell, but in lieu of lacing up a 12 inch Grimeca twin leader to your hub, the best bang for the buck.

The outfit's name is Laycook (901 523 1418). Very much a black smithy type gig, no website, no formalities, no need to mention your application. Takes about 2 weeks. I keep stashes for my other machines in rotation.
 

jim wilson

Website User
Non-VOC Member
cables for bikes make you're own.

flanders
i made all of the cables for my bikes.
you'll need ends, ferralls, inner and outer cable and housing.

http://www.flanderscables.com/actio...perator=Contains&Type=Wire&Catagory=CablePart

http://www.flanderscables.com/actio...Operator=Contains&Type=End&Catagory=CablePart

50’ roll .080” (2.0mm) diameter wire, 1 x 19 strand. Sold each 50’ roll

;);):rolleyes:
Making your Own Motorcycle Cables 1996

Some of us have experienced a pulled cable end, be it throttle, brake or clutch and our machines also have a compression release. It’s a bummer when this happens, especially at night, away from home. When building or restoring my bikes, going back to my 1st doodlebug (using electrical solder) and now my Rapides and R90/6RSS, I like to make my own cables, because they fit the bike. It is not an easy task but rewarding when done and working.
There are several distributors of cables, cable housings and fittings, with Flanders and Barnett my two of choice. I buy the universal throttle cables that have a factory made ‘ball’ @ the end. The rest of it has to be fitted to your machine. I also like to bend a ¼’’ radius tube to fit right at the carb top, so that notorious kink is eliminated altogether. Mikuni makes a very good rubber dust boot to help protect all cables from dirt. I also use black heat shrink to cover these boots as time and sun deteriorates them. These will fit at the adjusters as well. You can situate your adjuster where ever it is convenient for you. I use heavier cable for the clutch and brake assemblies and make both ends to fit.
Most store bought cables are made of 1 x (17 or 19) strand inner cable with sizes from .046 to .120, fitting mopeds to big bikes. The better inner cables are made of multiple strands referred to as a 7 x 7 cable, with seven groups of seven strands in each group, a total of 49 smaller strands. These are still about the same outside diameter size, (O.D.) wire so they will fit into your machine’s outer housing, should you wish to re-fit. The best part about these inner cables is their flexibility and tendency to work easier in a tighter bend radius. These are usually found in smaller diameters. I use a very high wattage old style soldering iron.
The outer housings are available in two types: lined with Teflon and unlined. The better outer cable housings are also made to be more flexible. They are made w/ more and smaller wire diameter spiral wraps for flexibility. Their size depends on the application and the inner cable sizes.
The other three parts to this work project are the outer cable ends, inline adjusters and inner cable end fittings usually made of brass. There are dozens of end fittings to anchor any number of combinations to fit levers and /or engine levers or rods. The outer end fittings are to make the housings look clean and provide proper fitting into the abutment. I like to grind the outer housing end flat after cutting it, using a sanding disc, and then insert an awl to clean up that inside spiral cable before I put on the outer cable end cap. Again the adjusters can be put where ever you like them for fine tuning.
The one item I have not mentioned yet is probably the most important, the solder. We have all used in a pinch not knowing any better the old standby solder readily found in our garages. Electrical 60/40 Tin-Antimony-Lead solder, plumbers solder made of 50/50 silver leadless or 60/40 tin-lead solder. Silver, Zinc, Indium and Cadmium are also used in combinations in the making of various solders; each has their pluses and minuses. Most of these are flux core solders but that does not mean you can not add your usual paste-flux to this process. These types of solders have a relatively low tensile strength of 4500-6000 psi. The MG product has 3x the tensile strength as these electrical types. Now just because the above plumbers silver leadless solder says silver, does not mean that it contains a good amount of silver content, maybe 6-9 % at most. Silver solder is by far the best way to join the fittings in this case, inner cables to brass fittings. There are many silver solders on the market, used for a multitude of purposes, most with heat ranges around 900-1400 F. degrees working temperatures. This depends on content and percentages of alloy material. This is too high for our use when cable making. Infact it is best NOT to use an open flame- torch on inner cables, but a very good soldering iron is needed. Some of you may have your soldering pots and used them for decades, and they work.
But silver solder does come in a lower temperature heat range for gas type torches without oxygen and iron use. This product‘s working temperature is 430 degrees, perfect for soldering iron use. I prefer this product MG120, also known as MG120A. These MG products use a flux core and cleaning agent for the preparation of bonding. The MG120A has a syringe applicator for the cleaning agent whereas the MG120 is a bottle. It is available at welding supply stores.
The key to a strong union is wetting and capillary attraction. Wetting is the ability of the molten solder to coat the strands surface. Capillary attraction is its ability to flow or wick. I prefer to ‘’tin’’ the inner cable end after I have slid my end fitting on to the inner cable first. This allows you to ‘’work over’’ /mushroom or flair the multiple ends more easily to prevent the dreaded pull-out. Pull the inner cable back to the fitting and solder. Trim or file the fittings when done.
Remember to lubricate all your non Teflon lined cables once a year by buying one of those simple spray type lubricators available at any good local m/c shop. I use a spray can of white lithium grease. These devices clamp over the outer cable end, have a small rubber hole built in and the grease squirts inside, down the cable housing through to the end. If you use a junction box with a single throttle cable to twin cables make sure you protect that junction from dirt and debris, clean and lube with light grease once a season along with all of your other cables.
Remember what Owsley Bear says ….… ‘‘They love to get out and play in the sunshine.’’

>> made by:
Messer Company - MG Welding Products
N94W 1455 Garwin Mace Drive
Menomonee Falls, WI. 53051 USA
(262) 255-5520 -- (262) 555-5542 fax#
Hardness 15 10 kg/ mm2 approx 15,000 psi
Melting point 430 degrees F 221 degrees C
Available in :: 1/16’’, 3/32’’, 1/8’’ >>>> use 1/16’’ for cables



Jim Wilson
VOC ~ OS#1467 Northern California Vincent ~ H.R.D ~ Dancing Bear S.O.
 

b'knighted

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
A good site, thanks!

I was recently had the good fortune to be taken, by John Crispin, to visit Marcus Bowden, the VOC Overseas Rep.
Marcus demonstrated the special tools he has made to '‘’work over’’ /mushroom or flair' the multiple ends. These comprise aluminium vice liners with a slight vertical groove to align the cable under a suitable counterbore and a hardened silver steel punch. The punch end is drilled and its bore and outer edge are rounded. Its bore is smaller than the full diameter of the cable but its inner radius lets it centre on the cable end. The cable is held with about five times its thickness above the floor of the counterbore. As the punch is tapped down the outer layers of wire bell out to meet the edges of the counterbore before their ends are tucked into the middle. The resulting tangled ball of wire hardly needs soldering as it would be impossible to pull it through a nipple. A separate punch and counterbore is needed for each size of inner cable. Perhaps if Marcus reads this he will put up some pictures of tools and wire ball end.

I will be making punches and clamp to make better clutch and lifter cables for myself and from choice would use ball shank ends (like Flanders 620-24280) in barrel nipples like (Flanders 620-23110) as they release any rotational stress from the cable.

Using a combination of Marcus’ and Jim’s techniques/advice, with a small solder pot to dip the fluxed ball end into, should give me better results than I have bodged in the past. The solder pot is used to ensure that no excess heat is applied to the cable as only heat transfer from the solder takes place.

I don't expect to ever need to replace the heavy duty front brake cables that Derek Sayers supplied.

Cheers,
 

bmetcalf

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Using a combination of Marcus’ and Jim’s techniques/advice, with a small solder pot to dip the fluxed ball end into, should give me better results than I have bodged in the past. The solder pot is used to ensure that no excess heat is applied to the cable as only heat transfer from the solder takes place.


VOCer Doug Wood has suggested a 1/2" NPT (or BSPT) black (un-galvanized) pipe cap http://www.marvelmetal.com/images/round-caps.jpg as a pot, to be heated with a propane torch. I forget how he holds it, other than with well-twisted heavy wire. The volume is nice and small, but big enough for a cable end.
 

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