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ET: Engine (Twin) Grosset Electric Starter Installation

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I bought a Clarks Type, That revs very high, I recut a Carb' Slide at max !!, And the tool nipped up,
Best not to use too high. Cheers Bill.
 

Phil Mahood

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Tim
With all the other makers you get a selection of collets to fit anything up to about 3.5 mm shank size
If anything the copies are now better than Dremel
The most common shank size for all of these tools is 1/8". There are a huge number of 1/8" bits from several makers (including Dremel, of course). Even the air grinders have 1/8" collets. So, you are good with any of them.
 

Phil Mahood

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Air powered die grinders are seriously powerful and can remove a lot of material in a flash at 30,000 rpm. The down side is they can be quite difficult to control. The Dremel, and other battery powered tools, have rheostats that can be turned down to a gentle pace. They are much more controllable.

I have both types, plus an angle grinder for large surfaces. Some jobs need the precise touch of a Dremel. Others, brute power. I cannot, for example, imagine porting and polishing a cylinder head with a Dremel. Nor could I cut a fine screw slot with an angle grinder. Different tools for different jobs.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I would like to see some Vincent starter installs that added an ignition switch and start button.
i just need ideas for this switch type, location and such please.
anyone have photos please of their own install or others?
Cheers
Craig
 

kerry

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I recently bought a Prince with the Grosset fitted, works well but I am trying to kick start mostly, however where can I buy a spare shear pin ? and, if required is it easy to fit ? Also, would it not be sensible to use the valve lifter or should I not ? thanks.
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
It says in the instructions that you may use the valve lifter if you want .........I have had over three different bikes here lately all with completely different types of starter and drive arrangements ........It is my strong opinion that any of the starter options should definitely be started and if possible stopped using the valve lifter, especially for the first start of the day where the crank could be spinning in a bath of cold oil. One of these bikes is a 2015 Godet Egli with the 1330 cc magnesium engine, this has no provision at all for any compression release....... I feel this is a big mistake, as the cranking ratio from the starter to the crank is 5:1 compare that to a starter on a car engine which is about 10 or 12 to 1. This bike will crank reasonably well so long as the throttle is not touched.......If you crack the throttle and hit the starter it sounds like the starter is being hit with a sledge hammer.
 

kerry

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Appreciate your wisdom, and tip on not opening the throttle, truth is I am a bit scared to put a starter motor against all that compression on a Vincent, it starts easily though with a kick or two, stopping on mine is with a car type ignition switch which I assume is OK or should I use the valve lifter ? still need to know where to buy spare shear pins and are they easy to fit, is there any video's to show this ? thanks Kerry.
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
You should use the valve lifter to stop the engine as well.......When you turn off the ignition you are stopping the spark but the compression of the engine can still cause the engine to turn backward against this compression.........This is not good for the starter. The Grosset starter is held to its modified G 50 plate by three allan head cap screws just under the exhaust pipes to the rear of the kickstart cover. With the starter motor withdrawn slightly inboard and lower it, as it will hang from the main power cable. You can rest this on a block of wood or similar.........The small drive gear on the R H end of the drive shaft is held on by this shear pin you are asking about.......This small pin is stopped from falling out by a ring type circlip that fits into a small radial groove in the drive gear. Once this ring is pried from the groove, the pin (or its remains) can be removed and a new one installed in the reverse order. I know of folk who have made their own from short lengths of the correct sized drill bit with small grooves cut to simulate the original pin........This design acts like a mechanical fuse in the system..........I have not seen one break, but I can see how it could easily happen. The starters do work quite well, but caution should be used with them if you want it to survive.
 

Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Kerry my handsome, my daughter's Rap (C)has a Grosset and my Rap (B) both with his ignition systems too.
Francois always insists on stopping with ex-lifter & I feel starting with it lifted helps a bit too. I have had a couple of shear pins go, undo the lowest three Allan screws and the starter motor will fall inboard and if the pin has gone the pinion will come off, slip the wire circlip along the shaft and poke out the broken bits plus the motor shaft bit, slide pinion back on fit new pin and slid circlip back along pinion to hold the pin in position.
I have made up a few shares my self as I have a lathe but Francois will certainly supply in between building series "A" Rapide's.
bananaman.


IMG_2330.jpeg
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Grosset will mail you the pins
For the last it seems a decade I always pull the clutch in when I switch on a coil ignition system with electric start one backfire to the starter and a pin could be the least of your worries. talk about Russian roulette
Now how do I know that?
1592996246175.png
 

Vincent Brake

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Or steel for a lathe easy chipping.
Dont know how you call it
We say automatic steel...

Certainly not carbon over 0.25%
Let alone silversteel.
Although its a perfect fit....
 

Kevin Emery

Active Website User
VOC Member
Hello

I have one of these kits fitted to my bike. Very nice kit it is too. Well engineered and turns the engine over beautifully. But, it is very difficult to start the engine. The engine turns over very fast but it does not start. When I get fed up with turning it over with the starter I kick start it and it generally starts first time. This makes no sense!

This seems to be caused by the starter motor running draining power to the Magneto. This should not be happening as they are electrically isolated. The bike is fitted with an Alton magneto.

Has anyone had this problem? Did you find the cause?

Regards
Kevin
 

stu spalding

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Kerry, you may find, after a bit of use, that the pin has a step in it where it has started to shear and can't be knocked out. The only thing to do is complete the shearing in a vice before fitting the new pin. Sounds brutal I know, but it's the only option. Cheers, Stu.
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Kerry, is the motor actually turning over or is it just the starter motor? Check the nylon gear isn't stripped or the shear pin isn't broken.. Always use the valve lifter when engine is cold to start and NEVER use a kill switch to stop. I have found some shear pins are a bit too thick, they need to be a light push fit and nothing more.
 

deejay499

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Appreciate your wisdom, and tip on not opening the throttle, truth is I am a bit scared to put a starter motor against all that compression on a Vincent, it starts easily though with a kick or two, stopping on mine is with a car type ignition switch which I assume is OK or should I use the valve lifter ? still need to know where to buy spare shear pins and are they easy to fit, is there any video's to show this ? thanks Kerry.
Also from the Spares Co and the likes of Conway’s.
 

kerry

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Wow thanks for the replies everyone, I will get some from the spares company, I spent over an hour today watching the online H&H auction, I saw about 30 bikes go through only 2 projects sols and one bike, I hope they feel embarrassed by their silly high estimates, and Mathewsons next month are as silly ? £60,000 for a Knight ? Thanks again on the Grossett info.
 

kerry

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Kerry my handsome, my daughter's Rap (C)has a Grosset and my Rap (B) both with his ignition systems too.
Francois always insists on stopping with ex-lifter & I feel starting with it lifted helps a bit too. I have had a couple of shear pins go, undo the lowest three Allan screws and the starter motor will fall inboard and if the pin has gone the pinion will come off, slip the wire circlip along the shaft and poke out the broken bits plus the motor shaft bit, slide pinion back on fit new pin and slid circlip back along pinion to hold the pin in position.
I have made up a few shares my self as I have a lathe but Francois will certainly supply in between building series "A" Rapide's.
bananaman.
Printed off, thanks Marcus, appreciated.
 

Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Kevin my handsome, Alton does not do magneto's, alternators yes & starters for Norton, Vellocett & now Vincent Comets. My (B) Rap had difficulty starting with the electric and tended to start as my finger left the red button, ah Ha voltage drop, got myself a £200 Lithium Iron battery that gives much better CCA (cold cranking amps) now is OK, was considering having a smaller battery for ignition then have a switch to connect to main battery in parallel or operated by a relay so when the red button is pushed relay isolates the batteries so no voltage drop and she will fire up instantly.
Let us all know if it works, please.
bananaman.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Like your idea Marcus, Just as a test, If 12v ??, Why not just connect it to a car battery .
Cheers Bill.
 

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