H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres Front wheel shims and bearings

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danno

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Hi
I’ve got the front wheel out for the first time on my Rapide C (tyre change) and I’m just cleaning and re greasing the bearings. They’ve done around 9k.
Would welcome a few pointers on correct setup and renewing if needed.
The right side bearing is fixed on but the left comes off easily.
There’s a paragraph in ‘Know Thy Beast’ on grease retainers. Nilo-Rings are mentioned but don’t know anything about them. The Rapide has the felt type.
Also have noticed some damage on the centre rim of the large gear. Not sure if this affects anything.
Any help appreciated.
 

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timetraveller

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The damage to the speedo drive gear is just where over the years people have taken it off and then put it back and punch locked the hub to hold the gear tight. A lot are the same.
 

davidd

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In general, I would say the brakes are too dirty. A lot less grease would help along with a good cleaning with a brake cleaning solvent of some sort. If you change to Nilos seals, keep the felt seals in a baggie as it is very difficult to break in new felt seals. It takes a long time for them to take the right shape.

The bearings look to be originals as they have so few rollers. I don't think that's a problem, but just an observation.

The drums don't appear to be turned or bedded-in with the shoes. It looks like the shoes are only touching upon the high spots of the drum. I wonder if the shoes were fitted to the drum.

Do not remove the brake spring, in place. To disassemble, take the nut off the brake cam on the other side and remove the brake arm and the serrated washer. Pull the cotter pins on the pivots. (I use that size cotter pin.) Wiggle and push the cam out of the plate while pulling up on the shoes at the pivots. When the whole assembly has been removed from the plate, slide the cam out from between the H48 steel plates on the end of the shoes. The spring will fall off the shoes with no effort. To assemble, reverse the procedure.

The two H48s appear to be thicker than normal. I would not be too worried, but it would be nice to figure out what is happening. Maybe the drum has been turned before?

Use only a small amount of grease on and in the bearing. Don't leave any in the hub.

David
 

vibrac

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When reassembling get a selection of shims My way (other ways are available) is to put the wheel in my big vice on the tyre till its just held upright clean all the bearings and internals assemble spacer bearings and evenly distribute some shims each side add or remove shims till there is just almost the imperceptible movement of the whole assembly take care the movement is the spacer and bearings together and not the spacer moving between the bearings I belive (and I havent looked for years) we are looking a 5 thou clearance its amazing what difference one thinnest shim will make. you may now add some grease
once that is settled add the felts (and the nilos rings if you use them) then use more shims to just space the brake plate from the drum just enough to stop it scraping on the edge, nowadays I do one plate at a time using a spacer for one plate doing the E80 nuts up tightish and checking clearance by rotating the brake, with luck the nuts should end up flush with end of the spacer additional shims may have to be added to achive this, it is important.
I stress thats just my way
 

danno

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Non-VOC Member
In general, I would say the brakes are too dirty. A lot less grease would help along with a good cleaning with a brake cleaning solvent of some sort. If you change to Nilos seals, keep the felt seals in a baggie as it is very difficult to break in new felt seals. It takes a long time for them to take the right shape.

The bearings look to be originals as they have so few rollers. I don't think that's a problem, but just an observation.

The drums don't appear to be turned or bedded-in with the shoes. It looks like the shoes are only touching upon the high spots of the drum. I wonder if the shoes were fitted to the drum.

Do not remove the brake spring, in place. To disassemble, take the nut off the brake cam on the other side and remove the brake arm and the serrated washer. Pull the cotter pins on the pivots. (I use that size cotter pin.) Wiggle and push the cam out of the plate while pulling up on the shoes at the pivots. When the whole assembly has been removed from the plate, slide the cam out from between the H48 steel plates on the end of the shoes. The spring will fall off the shoes with no effort. To assemble, reverse the procedure.

The two H48s appear to be thicker than normal. I would not be too worried, but it would be nice to figure out what is happening. Maybe the drum has been turned before?

Use only a small amount of grease on and in the bearing. Don't leave any in the hub.

David

That’s great, thanks.
Don’t know much about the drums, only that the bike was restored in the 90’s.
May be that the originals were worn and replaced with these.
Not sure if I need to take off the shoes. Would only be to re grease the pivots but notice there’s a grease nipple for that.
 

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davidd

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VOC Member
Not sure if I need to take off the shoes. Would only be to re grease the pivots but notice there’s a grease nipple for that.
I don't blame you! There is simply too much grease everywhere in the brakes for me.

If the brake linings are 30 years old, there is little sense doing anything other than cleaning as the performance of linings generally deteriorates with age.

I see that you have a witness mark on the left side brake cam. I would see if the mark is also on the drum as it appears to be hitting. If you change the shimming, you may find the cam hitting the drum again. Just shim for the problem or make some more clearance.

All the best,

David
 

danno

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Non-VOC Member
I see that you have a witness mark on the left side brake cam. I would see if the mark is also on the drum as it appears to be hitting.

Thanks for spotting that.
There is a fine wear line around the left drum. Nothing too excessive but did notice
that the wheel was a little noisy turning when taking it out.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Just cleaning the axle and bearings and one slips off and the other is stuck or pressed on.
Wondering if both should come off easily.
Info from an old booklet called MotorCycling Maintenance Series mentions shims between the bearing inner race and axle shoulder. Makes sense for increasing distance between them.
 

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SteveW

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VOC Member
When reassembling get a selection of shims My way (other ways are available) is to put the wheel in my big vice on the tyre till its just held upright clean all the bearings and internals assemble spacer bearings and evenly distribute some shims each side add or remove shims till there is just almost the imperceptible movement of the whole assembly take care the movement is the spacer and bearings together and not the spacer moving between the bearings I belive (and I havent looked for years) we are looking a 5 thou clearance its amazing what difference one thinnest shim will make. you may now add some grease
once that is settled add the felts (and the nilos rings if you use them) then use more shims to just space the brake plate from the drum just enough to stop it scraping on the edge, nowadays I do one plate at a time using a spacer for one plate doing the E80 nuts up tightish and checking clearance by rotating the brake, with luck the nuts should end up flush with end of the spacer additional shims may have to be added to achive this, it is important.
I stress thats just my way
Excellent Reply. I would add that the wheel needs to be balanced, too.
BTW, VOC Spares has metal caps that replace the felt rings.
Also, check for rim run out before greasing the bearings, retiring and balancing it (1/64"+-). Adjust by tightening/loosening opposite spokes and ringing spokes to "tune" them for tightness. Good luck.
 
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