H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres Front wheel shims and bearings

[danno]

It's best to do it in stages, First work out the clearance of the bearings, It's best to do it without grease !!.
You want just a nat's free play, Forget everything else for a bit, You can feel it,
You will have to make up bits of tube or something, Both sides, So that you can do the outer nuts up tight on the bench,
Put too many shims in first, Same both sides until you feel too much play, With the nuts done up !.
Then take a shim out, One each side until there is just a little play.
Once you are happy take apart and grease the bearings, Not too much !!.
Then start on shimming for the Brake Plates.
When the wheel is in the forks you may find the Brake lever comes back too much, To the handle bar,
Talk to us again, Cheers Bill.

Thanks.
So tommy bar needed in there also and use spacers to take up the fork width?
There’s two small shims for the bearing play so hope that will be ok.
Would prefer to setup off the bike if poss.
At the moment I’m doing this with the wheel free standing.
There’s also a fair amount of grease in the hub between the outer races. Have cleaned everything else but have left that.

Time consuming it is until you’ve learnt the technique. Got a feeling there’ll
be more first time jobs. Got my two BM’s though for spins but don’t like the Vinnie off the road when weather’s good.

 

[danno]

There’s two large washers, slightly different in size/thickness, grouped in with the brass shims.
Assuming they don’t go under the locking nuts, they must be shims.

 

[Bill Thomas]

Like I said before we have to break it down to small jobs,
The hollow axle should be a nice fit in between the fork blades, You don't really want washers between the hollow axle and the forks, Although I have done on one of my Bikes Because the Plonker who Built the wheel Did not have the hub, Centre in the rim like I asked him !!.
Is there a big gap ?, Maybe someone has built the forks a bit wide ?.
If it's only a few thousands of an inch, You could put a small shim between the Brake plate and inner bearing,
So that the nuts are a bit overhanging the hollow axle !!, But not too much !!.
And also when tightening the tommy bar, It will nip up a few thou, Without making the forks too stiff ?.
The Tommy bar only holds the hollow axle. wheel assy to the forks, Nothing else !!.
The shims / bearings and brake plates and nuts have already set how wide the wheel is.

 

[Bill Thomas]

With these OLD Bikes anything could have been done, All sorts of washers used,
Another thing about putting washers between the brake plate and the forks , Is you are moving the plate away from the fork leg, Which means that locating pin you showed us won't be as far into the fork leg as it should,
It wants to be as far in as you can, So the pin is not trying to twist out under braking !!.
Don't be worried, I am over talking it a bit !!, But Things have gone wrong when that pin has rusted where it is fixed to the plate, Very rare !!!!.

 

[danno]

The hollow axle should be a nice fit in between the fork blades, You don't really want washers between the hollow axle and the forks

Yes. I see that now. I’ve put the wheel back in minus the grease and the hollow axle
is a good press fit between the forks. Locking nuts flush with axle ends.
Also realize now where the pins locate in the forks. At first I managed to insert the tommy bar with the left brake plate pin completely out of the socket. Just a quick rotation and it was fine.
With the tommy bar tightened a little, there’s certainly play in the wheel. I do have both shims in between bearings and axle shoulder.
Bit of scraping noise but will work on that with the outer shims.

I’ll have a look through the spares boxes for any shims but may be an idea to order some from the shop.

 

[Bill Thomas]

I think the book says a thirty second of an inch at the wheel rim, With everything TIGHT,
But some people think that is a bit too much !, Often the MOT Man !.
If the tommy bar is not tight ! There will be a bit of movement of the bar in the fork hole !!!!.
I am not against thick washers between the Bearing and the brake plate, If they are the right size,
One big washer is the same as lots of small, If that is what it needs.

 

[bmetcalf]

Beware too much grease, too! Over 30 years ago, I overpacked my bike trailer hubs, the grease seals blew out, and the axle was ruined. That happened when a friend was using it to haul his ‘70’s MV, so I was happy no damage resulted.

 

[Bill Thomas]

Another thing I like to do, When the front wheel is all in and tight, I put a finger between the tyre and fork leg
Both sides at the same time, Just to see it's in the middle.

 

[greg brillus]

Sorry guy's yes a trick question........The hub is never going to get hot is it.........The bearing clearance is simply for lubrication not expansion/contraction of the hub.........those of you who remember setting up the front wheel bearings on an older type car or trailer will know what I mean. The two E 80 nuts on either side most always end up overhanging the ends of the hollow axle thread........The lower ends of the fork blades should not pull inwards to compensate for this, perhaps 1 mm at most. Try the hollow axle with nuts on only between the fork blade ends to see how far out the nuts need to be.

 

[danno]

I use a workmate turned on it's side to clamp the wheel so that it is on the floor and vertical. This way you can shim the bearings and brake plates off the bike. I check the float using feeler guages and by rotating the the brake assemby rather than the wheel.
If this is not clear, search my post where you will find a photo

Just seen the post and pic. Will use that idea, thanks.
Easier than having to put the wheel back on every time.
I have some digital vernier gauges around somewhere for shim check but I’ll
do the bearing play by feel.
As with my R60/6, the wheel bearing play can only be checked when tightened up, on or off the bike. Need to find a small spacer for the tommy bar. Knew I shouldn’t have got rid of all that copper pipe when moving house