• Welcome to the website of the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club.

    Should you have any questions relating to the Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club, or Vincent H.R.D. motorcycles in general, please contact Graham Smith, Hon. Editor and Webmaster by calling 07977 001 025 or please CLICK HERE.

    You are unrecognised, and therefore, only have VERY restricted access to the many features of this website.

    If you have previously registered to use this forum, you should log in now. CLICK HERE.

    If you have never registered to use this website before, please CLICK HERE.

H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres Front wheel shims and bearings

Status
Not open for further replies.

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi
I’ve got the front wheel out for the first time on my Rapide C (tyre change) and I’m just cleaning and re greasing the bearings. They’ve done around 9k.
Would welcome a few pointers on correct setup and renewing if needed.
The right side bearing is fixed on but the left comes off easily.
There’s a paragraph in ‘Know Thy Beast’ on grease retainers. Nilo-Rings are mentioned but don’t know anything about them. The Rapide has the felt type.
Also have noticed some damage on the centre rim of the large gear. Not sure if this affects anything.
Any help appreciated.
 

Attachments

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The damage to the speedo drive gear is just where over the years people have taken it off and then put it back and punch locked the hub to hold the gear tight. A lot are the same.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
In general, I would say the brakes are too dirty. A lot less grease would help along with a good cleaning with a brake cleaning solvent of some sort. If you change to Nilos seals, keep the felt seals in a baggie as it is very difficult to break in new felt seals. It takes a long time for them to take the right shape.

The bearings look to be originals as they have so few rollers. I don't think that's a problem, but just an observation.

The drums don't appear to be turned or bedded-in with the shoes. It looks like the shoes are only touching upon the high spots of the drum. I wonder if the shoes were fitted to the drum.

Do not remove the brake spring, in place. To disassemble, take the nut off the brake cam on the other side and remove the brake arm and the serrated washer. Pull the cotter pins on the pivots. (I use that size cotter pin.) Wiggle and push the cam out of the plate while pulling up on the shoes at the pivots. When the whole assembly has been removed from the plate, slide the cam out from between the H48 steel plates on the end of the shoes. The spring will fall off the shoes with no effort. To assemble, reverse the procedure.

The two H48s appear to be thicker than normal. I would not be too worried, but it would be nice to figure out what is happening. Maybe the drum has been turned before?

Use only a small amount of grease on and in the bearing. Don't leave any in the hub.

David
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
When reassembling get a selection of shims My way (other ways are available) is to put the wheel in my big vice on the tyre till its just held upright clean all the bearings and internals assemble spacer bearings and evenly distribute some shims each side add or remove shims till there is just almost the imperceptible movement of the whole assembly take care the movement is the spacer and bearings together and not the spacer moving between the bearings I belive (and I havent looked for years) we are looking a 5 thou clearance its amazing what difference one thinnest shim will make. you may now add some grease
once that is settled add the felts (and the nilos rings if you use them) then use more shims to just space the brake plate from the drum just enough to stop it scraping on the edge, nowadays I do one plate at a time using a spacer for one plate doing the E80 nuts up tightish and checking clearance by rotating the brake, with luck the nuts should end up flush with end of the spacer additional shims may have to be added to achive this, it is important.
I stress thats just my way
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
In general, I would say the brakes are too dirty. A lot less grease would help along with a good cleaning with a brake cleaning solvent of some sort. If you change to Nilos seals, keep the felt seals in a baggie as it is very difficult to break in new felt seals. It takes a long time for them to take the right shape.

The bearings look to be originals as they have so few rollers. I don't think that's a problem, but just an observation.

The drums don't appear to be turned or bedded-in with the shoes. It looks like the shoes are only touching upon the high spots of the drum. I wonder if the shoes were fitted to the drum.

Do not remove the brake spring, in place. To disassemble, take the nut off the brake cam on the other side and remove the brake arm and the serrated washer. Pull the cotter pins on the pivots. (I use that size cotter pin.) Wiggle and push the cam out of the plate while pulling up on the shoes at the pivots. When the whole assembly has been removed from the plate, slide the cam out from between the H48 steel plates on the end of the shoes. The spring will fall off the shoes with no effort. To assemble, reverse the procedure.

The two H48s appear to be thicker than normal. I would not be too worried, but it would be nice to figure out what is happening. Maybe the drum has been turned before?

Use only a small amount of grease on and in the bearing. Don't leave any in the hub.

David
That’s great, thanks.
Don’t know much about the drums, only that the bike was restored in the 90’s.
May be that the originals were worn and replaced with these.
Not sure if I need to take off the shoes. Would only be to re grease the pivots but notice there’s a grease nipple for that.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Not sure if I need to take off the shoes. Would only be to re grease the pivots but notice there’s a grease nipple for that.
I don't blame you! There is simply too much grease everywhere in the brakes for me.

If the brake linings are 30 years old, there is little sense doing anything other than cleaning as the performance of linings generally deteriorates with age.

I see that you have a witness mark on the left side brake cam. I would see if the mark is also on the drum as it appears to be hitting. If you change the shimming, you may find the cam hitting the drum again. Just shim for the problem or make some more clearance.

All the best,

David
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I see that you have a witness mark on the left side brake cam. I would see if the mark is also on the drum as it appears to be hitting.
Thanks for spotting that.
There is a fine wear line around the left drum. Nothing too excessive but did notice
that the wheel was a little noisy turning when taking it out.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Just cleaning the axle and bearings and one slips off and the other is stuck or pressed on.
Wondering if both should come off easily.
Info from an old booklet called MotorCycling Maintenance Series mentions shims between the bearing inner race and axle shoulder. Makes sense for increasing distance between them.
 

Attachments

SteveW

Active Website User
VOC Member
When reassembling get a selection of shims My way (other ways are available) is to put the wheel in my big vice on the tyre till its just held upright clean all the bearings and internals assemble spacer bearings and evenly distribute some shims each side add or remove shims till there is just almost the imperceptible movement of the whole assembly take care the movement is the spacer and bearings together and not the spacer moving between the bearings I belive (and I havent looked for years) we are looking a 5 thou clearance its amazing what difference one thinnest shim will make. you may now add some grease
once that is settled add the felts (and the nilos rings if you use them) then use more shims to just space the brake plate from the drum just enough to stop it scraping on the edge, nowadays I do one plate at a time using a spacer for one plate doing the E80 nuts up tightish and checking clearance by rotating the brake, with luck the nuts should end up flush with end of the spacer additional shims may have to be added to achive this, it is important.
I stress thats just my way
Excellent Reply. I would add that the wheel needs to be balanced, too.
BTW, VOC Spares has metal caps that replace the felt rings.
Also, check for rim run out before greasing the bearings, retiring and balancing it (1/64"+-). Adjust by tightening/loosening opposite spokes and ringing spokes to "tune" them for tightness. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The bearing should not be too tight, Unless one was a bit loose and they loctited it ?,
I have seen them with lots of pin punch dings to make it tighter, Not nice !!,
Just put the axle in a vise and tap with a small hammer, One side then the other etc.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The bearing should not be too tight, Unless one was a bit loose and they loctited it ?,
I have seen them with lots of pin punch dings to make it tighter, Not nice !!,
Just put the axle in a vise and tap with a small hammer, One side then the other etc.
Thanks.
As it is, the bearing would probably spin on the axle and most likely has been.
Maybe could try a little locktite on the loose one but I’ll leave the other.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I would add that the wheel needs to be balanced, too.
BTW, VOC Spares has metal caps that replace the felt rings.
Also, check for rim run out before greasing the bearings, retiring and balancing it (1/64"+-). Adjust by tightening/loosening opposite spokes and ringing spokes to "tune" them for tightness. Good luck.
Thanks.
I reckon I’m a fair way off doing that but will be useful later.
Just getting the wheel spinning freely and with the correct amount of play is taking a while.
First time job and while I have the tools, I don’t yet have a bench/vice. Using a workmate at the mo.
Will have to use trial and error with wheel in the forks.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
When reassembling get a selection of shims My way (other ways are available) is to put the wheel in my big vice on the tyre till its just held upright clean all the bearings and internals assemble spacer bearings and evenly distribute some shims each side add or remove shims till there is just almost the imperceptible movement of the whole assembly take care the movement is the spacer and bearings together and not the spacer moving between the bearings I belive (and I havent looked for years) we are looking a 5 thou clearance its amazing what difference one thinnest shim will make. you may now add some grease
once that is settled add the felts (and the nilos rings if you use them) then use more shims to just space the brake plate from the drum just enough to stop it scraping on the edge, nowadays I do one plate at a time using a spacer for one plate doing the E80 nuts up tightish and checking clearance by rotating the brake, with luck the nuts should end up flush with end of the spacer additional shims may have to be added to achive this, it is important.
I stress thats just my way
Helpful, thanks.
I can see now that it’s the smaller shims between the bearing and axle shoulder that determine play in the wheel.
There are two and I’m sure one was bunched in with the larger brass ones.
With a bearing that doesn’t grip, I won’t be able to accurately setup the clearance.
Need to fix it on as mentioned before.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Yes you need both bearings with free fit, So that you can work out how many shims you need,
And also the same amount both sides, There are different thickness shims, So you need a micrometer,
Or something else .
So that the axle will be in the middle when finished.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Yes you need both bearings with free fit, So that you can work out how many shims you need,
And also the same amount both sides, There are different thickness shims, So you need a micrometer,
Or something else .
So that the axle will be in the middle when finished.
Thanks.
The bearing is starting to shift by hand now.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Just offering up the wheel and as the drums rotate, it’s a little difficult to line up.
I have a block of wood under the wheel to help.
Also notice that there’s nothing fixed to the drums to stop them rotating, just the tommy bar.
There’s a pair of pegs on each drum (pic). Maybe that’s what they’re for.
Just a little unsure of the positioning as there’s no fixing.
Do the pegs go each side of the fork?
It’ll be quicker next time round :D
 

Attachments

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
They are called Brake plates, Only one peg fits into the fork,
Depends which way round they are fitted,
Bit of a fiddle, But once in, It's nice and snug,
You want the outside nuts flush with the ends of the hollow axle,
So it touches nice on the inside of the fork blades.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks.
I reckon I’m a fair way off doing that but will be useful later.
Just getting the wheel spinning freely and with the correct amount of play is taking a while.
First time job and while I have the tools, I don’t yet have a bench/vice. Using a workmate at the mo.
Will have to use trial and error with wheel in the forks.
Actually having an aversion to wood I never had a workmate stand but if I did for the job I outlined in my post#5 above it would beat a vice every time easier to reach each side of the wheel (vertical position) and a kinder clamp
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Forum Threads

Can't Find What You Need?

Buyer Beware: Fake or Real?


Top