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H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres Front Wheel Bearings

brian gains

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
#1
Looking for the spec's for front wheel bearing on the forum I found good explanation of what I ought to expect on the Comet; metric front, rear and RFM. Stupidly I did not book mark the post and only took note of the Timkin bearing part No. 09074/09196 which I googled;
Brand: Timken
Measurement Unit: Imperial
Inside Diameter: 19.05mm
Outside Diameter: 49.23mm
Width: 23.02mm
Cone Width: 21.54mm
Cup Width: 17.46mm

the measurement unit is given as being imperial so I either took note for H22/1 by mistake or misunderstood dating of machine, can anyone direct me to the original post that ties date of production with what bearing to expect or go to trouble of explaining again for those of us that are hard of thought.
Thanks in advance.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#2
Here is what I have for the metric bearings:

30204 Dimensions.JPG

I am sorry, but I don't remember where the post was with the dates. I usually just deal with the bearings that are in the hub. The bearings ending in 74 & 96 you mention above are the wide ones. The 67 & 95 bearings are the narrow ones.

David
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#3
Since the metric bearing was only necessitated by the Korean war I guess 1952 would be involved judging by the lack of chrome on my 52 Triumph TR5 petrol tank.
 

brian gains

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
#4
thanks for that, Stevens gives '51 as a date but obviously I think the prudent thing to do is inspect what I have. Was hoping to wait until the end of the season but after a quick front end check having nearly broken my wrists (well it felt like it) hitting a collapsed gully under the road the play to the front wheel is in excess of 1/32 has come to light. May be just shims but want to prepare for worst.
ps thanks to Bob at Vincent Spares for good service.
 

brian gains

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
#5
after disassembly the front wheel has non adjustable ball bearings retained by threaded collar, any advice on setting up?
thanks
 

Marcus Bowden

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VOC Member
#6
Not a good set up, I think it was"D's" that had a located ball race on one side and roller the other side but of dimensions that the hub could be set up in a lathe and fixed steady and bore out the bearing housing to take taper bearings, far more practical.
bananaman.
 

MartynG

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#7
thanks for that, Stevens gives '51 as a date but obviously I think the prudent thing to do is inspect what I have. Was hoping to wait until the end of the season but after a quick front end check having nearly broken my wrists (well it felt like it) hitting a collapsed gully under the road the play to the front wheel is in excess of 1/32 has come to light. May be just shims but want to prepare for worst.
ps thanks to Bob at Vincent Spares for good service.
According to the Works Order Form the final completion date of my Comet was 13/12/51 and it has metric wheel bearings front n rear BUT Imperial bearings in the RFM pivot!

M
 

brian gains

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
#8
The Comet is a '51, no idea of exact date from a works order.
The setup described by Marcus sounds similar to what I have found.

Both bearings are sealed and of different manufacture, The ball bearing ( SKF ) but I could not identify the JAL sealed bearing which must be the plain roller and would have been the same as ET94 according to Stevens.

From the description it sounds as if the ET94 was 'floating' and held in position by thrust washers which would mean axial loads, in at least one direction, taken by the centre race as the outer race would be seated and able to transfer loads on one side where it abutted the screwed down retaining collar. Does that sound right?

As for machining, that sounds like a hell of a job and one for someone with specific Vincent build knowledge apart from a complete wheel rebuild, also would something need to be done about the gear drive to the speedometer.

Think I'll stick with PCV's bodge that seems not at all mechanically well founded and I guess results in faster bearing deterioration. Sounds to me like a p*ss poor set up to get around the lack of availability of adjustable cone bearings.
 

Marcus Bowden

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VOC Member
#9
Brian my handsome, what is your location, as you aint a member so don't know where you be. If you could get the wheel to me, dismantled or other wise with set of tapered bearings, I could do it for you in less than a day with wheel all respoked. I'm in Looe Cornwall PL13 1JY fantastic weather and sea temperature near on 20 degrees C.
 

macvette

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#10
Not a good set up, I think it was"D's" that had a located ball race on one side and roller the other side but of dimensions that the hub could be set up in a lathe and fixed steady and bore out the bearing housing to take taper bearings, far more practical.
bananaman.
My D has taper roller bearings all round
 

Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#11
Like I said , I THINK it was "D's" that this was standard as It's only the one wheel I've come across like it, as the works were doing a lot of cost cutting exercises about this time.
bananaman
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#12
Actually I don´t know what that is all about. You can fit taper roller bearings just as well as standard ball bearings, as the majority of Japanese or Italian bikes have. BUT, I would not go for adjustable bearing features, too big a risk of wrong setting in a hurry. I´d fabricate a distance tube for the inner races, ball bearing or taper, same for all. That distance tube is fitted next to your lathe and adjusted in total length for nil axial play. In the bike you simply torque up the wheel for rigidity , no hassle with bearing preloads in consequence. The picture shows a mod from non bike scenery for inspiration, the big diameter discs there to keep the grease in the taper roller bearings.

Vic
bearing spacer.JPG
 

brian gains

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
#13
That is a tremendously generous offer Marcus, by stripped down = brake hubs and rim off?

Further inspection, after referring to David's supplied drawing (thank you) there is what appears to be the remains of the outer taper cage in the hub on one side at least and this has had the leading edge bludgeoned by some monkey, it maybe that this would preclude re establishing the taper bearing set up without removing, building up and re machining. Also, the speedo drive gear has been welded on !!.

All this makes me think that someone considered replacing the adjustable bearing and after subjecting the area to brute force, heat and a total lack of mechanical sympathy failed and reverted to the non adjustable bearing solution.

Am I right in thinking that the hollow axle would differ in length depending on if it was fitted with taper rollers or bodged non adjustable 'shady tree' solution. ?

I'll need to consider options and then maybe a short holiday in the beautiful west country.

I'm in West Sussex, lapsed membership.
 

brian gains

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
#14
mmm. doing a search on this Chankly Bore wrote on this topic

'The hub and the axle are special components requiring various spacers listed in the 1952 Spares List Supplement and now unobtainable". K.T.B. page 44. Ball bearing was listed as H22/2, and the spacers may have been H59-H59/3 inclusive, hub body may have been H38/7 or H38/9.'

this makes me think that contrary to my thoughts that the original hub was adapted that there was a stand alone purpose made hub for unadjustable bearing version.

Does anyone have dim's for ET94 as the measurements and markings from the JAL bearing I've taken do not turn anything up.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#15
I thought that the ET94 was an imperial bearing RLS 6.
RLS 6 Open.PNG
I am not certain what the bore of your hub is. I have never seen this type of hub. If you are not looking for strictly original I would just match the bearing to the hubs and hollow axles that you have.

David
 
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