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Fender Question

Deroberson

Active Website User
VOC Member
Does anyone know the radius measurement of the original C series mudguards? I have a complete set of uncut, front and rear stainless fenders that I believe could be fit to suit my Vincent projects.

Before I launch off into cutting good fenders, it would be nice to know the original sizes. I also have two rear birmabrights that are in a sad state of shape, that could be used as a pattern. I have compared the radiuses and they are seemingly very close. It is hard to get an accurate measurement from a fender that has been fitted because they seemed to get bent up a bit once bolted up.

As well the two original seem to have the same recurring injuries, do stainles fenders hold up any better? The full stainless rear fender I have has a radius of 12.5 inches.

Dave
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I've just taken off my Birmabrights, so I'll have a go at measuring the radii. Watch this space. I can tell you 1) that the front is 4 3/4" wide, and the rear 5" wide, and that I haven't found anyone who still does guards in those sizes. The stainless ones are, I think, 1/4" wider.
I've just posted a pic of my bike, now re-united with the black steel "Birmabrights" with which it left the factory in 1951. I've heard tell of another six bikes with steel sports guards. Len Mathews has / had a 1951 Comet so fitted. The pic ought to be in 2009 / miscellaneous / Series C, keywords steel, black, Birmabright. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows anything about these - or has even seen them. People who know they existed are at least as rare as the guards themselves.
 

fgth130

Active Website User
VOC Member
Front mudguard, Rear mudguard & Flap radii: 15 and 3 inches respectively. Specified manufacturing tolerances were of the order of +/- 1/16", in practice this doubled.
Hope this helps,

Frank Griffin
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks, Frank.

What I saw clearly with the (stiffer) steel guards is that the radius of the hinges was slightly bigger than the section radius of the guards - which is not a problem - but meant that it was prudent to bolt the hinge to the guard / flap in the centre first then clamp the assembly before lining up the holes for the side bolts.
 

Deroberson

Active Website User
VOC Member
Fender Radius

Thanks, Frank.

What I saw clearly with the (stiffer) steel guards is that the radius of the hinges was slightly bigger than the section radius of the guards - which is not a problem - but meant that it was prudent to bolt the hinge to the guard / flap in the centre first then clamp the assembly before lining up the holes for the side bolts.


Frank

Thank you for the reply, is your measurment for the fender radius on the outside of the fender, I am guessing it is? This should have been an obvious question to my initial inquiry, my measure was based on "inner radius measurment.

My next question to the group is within the realm of recurring injury to the rear mudguard, I have two fenders that are shattered in the same area, and no one on the forum has said "yes, thats a problem spot".

Just by looking at design, it seems to be inevitable even with the reinforcement strip. With the rear most support poking at the fender with it being fixed in the mid section, I cannot see how the ripping of the metal in mid section of the rear fender can be avoided, am I incorrect in this observation?

David
 

Hugo Myatt

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have always thought it was heaving the bike onto the rear stand that ripped out the chunk in the rear mudguard. The only things resisting the strain of the rearward pull on the lifting handle are the chainguard connections and the mudguard plus re-inforcing strip. If the two bolts holding the mudguard and re-inforcing strip to the RFM are not deadtight and without elongated holes it will eventually rip the characteristic piece out of the mudguard. This may only apply to us small blokes who tend to pull the handle more backwards than upwards in line with the lifting handle.

Black sports mudguards (fenders) - Page 40 Peter Carrick's book Vincent HRD shows a works Black Lightning displayed at the 1949 Earls Court Show with black mudguards. They look like standard section front mudguards but somewhat truncated but whether they are enamelled Birmabrights or steel is not clear.
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
If there was "a knack" in getting the bike on to the rear stand, I seem to have lost it. If there wasn't a knack, I'm not as strong as I was. Both are possible, even likely. However the ultimate answer to the problem is a Dave Hills stand, which is 1) easy to use and 2) eliminates the "long totter of death" as one supports a Vincent with one hand while working ones way to the back to drop the stand. And the totter back again once it is pushed off the stand. If one managed to get it ON to the stand in the first place.
 

Hugo Myatt

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I never found any knack with the rear stand either and I am very familiar 'with the totter of death' and that moment of terrible suspense as you stand at the back grasping the lifting handle, with your toes securing the stand feet to the road, struggling to keep the bike precariously balanced as you psych yourself up for that one gut wrenching heave that you know is your one chance of success. One thing I do know, though, is that it is vital to screw up the steering damper tight before you proceed. If not the steering can suddenly fall to the right or left mid-heave and the whole plot will subside irredeemably to the road. The Series D stand on my twin made it all a doddle and even gives you something to hang on to if you fear the bike is going to topple away from you. Unfortunately starting the bike on the D stand eventually fractures the stand but almost always the upright handle lacerates your left thigh as you heroically descend from your leap on the kickstart. The Dave Hills stand is the complete answer and it is difficult to understand why Vincents persisted with the rear stand for so long. I have one slight reservation about the Dave Hills stand or perhaps I should say an unfortunate incident which may be a peculiar trait of my own machine. I put my Comet onto its Dave Hills stand and started it. As it ticked over happily I dismounted to collect my helmet. The moment my back was turned there was an almighty crash. The Comet was lying on its side with the footrest hanger snapped. The tick-over had caused the bike to rock back and forth on the stand until until it overcame the fulcrum and the point of no return.

Hugo
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hugo: you missed only one part of the rear stand routine. If you don't get the position of your right leg correct, succeding the rupture-inducing heave, just as the strain comes off, the tailpipe performs a neat circular biopsy on your shin, on the bit where all the nerve endings live. Now the bike is on the stand, but you aren't going to be able to walk for several minutes, or even think, until the pain ebbs. Don't tell me about childbirth. I KNOW what pain is.
My Dave Hills stand was the same initially as yours: went on easy but a gust of wind from behind and it would roll right back off again. Breaking a lifetime's rule I did things properly, took it completely off, and took a hacksaw to it, and sawed 1/8" off the stop. Virtue having its own reward, albeit sporadically, it was not much more difficult to deploy, but required a deliberate shove to, er, undeploy.
That said, considering that not only are no two Vincents the same, but no ONE Vincent is the same, Dave gets astonishingly close first time.
 

Hugo Myatt

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Tom,

Gosh, I'd forgotten about that. Yes, I have a series of ruined trousers with strange black ring-like markings on the right shin. It is intriguing that the shin injury is at exactually the right height to be compounded by the jutting Comet footrest as you try to stagger out of the cluttered garage. You are right, the Dave Hills stand is brilliant but probably needs tweaking for each individual machine. Altering the stop is not possible on mine as the tread down extension is already on the ground when the stand is in use.
P.S. I thought I had cured this stand problem by fitting a sidecar to the other Comet. It is astonishing how malevolent the feet of the rear stand can be in the up position when navigating your way around a crowded garage.

Hugo
 

nkt267

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
It is intriguing that the shin injury is at exactually the right height to be compounded by the jutting Comet footrest as you try to stagger out of the cluttered garage.
OH the joy of folding footrests on MY Comet(gloat, gloat):D..John
 

Deroberson

Active Website User
VOC Member
Well, salvage may be possible yet. It will take some time and elbow grease but here are the result I have to work with, very competent aluminum man in my area was able to help me out. Sanding and polishing in my very near future. You can see a little before and after here.

Cheers
Dave
 

Hugo Myatt

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
It seems to be a question of personal stature. I have had other bikes with rear stands which I could operate using your left side method but it was never very successful for me on the Vincent. I have seen other Vincent owners effortlessly whip their bikes onto the stand using your method but I am convinced they are of Mr. Atlas proportions. I fear I am condemned to the 'totter of death' method from behind the machine. I have occasionally managed the left side method by using the D centre stand in conjunction with the rear stand which brings the rear stand close to the balance point.

Hugo
 

ernie

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I too swear by the Hills stand, however on those occasions when the rear stand must be deployed - replacing rear tyre etc - the lifting effort is considerably reduced if you roll the rear wheel onto a slab of wood an inch or so thick before the manoeuvre.
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Rear stand

If there's a Nobel Prize for the Elimination of Lumbar Trauma, I'll be putting your name forward. Don't hold your breath, though. But that slab of wood trick is a good one.
I followed the Eddie Stevens' advice to add an extension to the chainguard. Stops oil-fling. Works. But when you try to remove the rear wheel, the sprocket fouls the extension. Unless, taran-ta-RA: New! Miracle! Slab of Wood! has been employed.
Thanks.
Just been reading about Eddie, a teacher, aged 39, in Vincent Gold Portfolio. Made everything that could rust out of stainless. But at huge cost. The article reckoned he'd spent £70 on stainless. The entire UK National Debt. Changed days: today, that would buy 20 pints of Guinness...

Tom
 

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