Misc: Everything Else Early (B?) vs. late (C?) kickstart levers

GBewley

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VOC Member
Good morning, all!

I wonder if the brain trust could help me with information concerning the early vs. late kickstart levers on our twins. Essentially, I am wondering when and why the works moved to the later design. My thoughts lean toward manufacturing expenses and possibly rider comfort issues as the rest of the machine didn’t change appreciably throughout it’s lifetime.

Any input appreciated, particularly if it’s based on historic information.

Thanks!

Glenn
 

Phil Davies

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Non-VOC Member
As I understand it,
PCV had an active dislike of chrome plating, so the original intent was to go with forged stainless steel kickstart levers - which is what was delivered in the first batch ordered.
I suspect when someone responsible for production costings/profit saw what this batch cost to buy in, the next batch specification was quickly changed to steel for plating, so once the first batch was used up, that was it for the future - especially so subsequently, when costs were even more closely under review in order to even continue to exist.
 

GBewley

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Any idea of the timing of the changeover, Phil? I realize it would have been pars bin engineering after the new (later, plated steel) units came in, but when roughly?
 

Peter Holmes

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But does that explain the clear difference in shape between what we refer to, probably quite wrongly, (get that bit in first), between B + C kickstart cranks.
 

Simon Dinsdale

VOC Machine Registrar
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
The very early bikes had stainless kickstart with the dog leg shape. The exact number is unknown but probably around 150 to 200.
The next type was the same dog leg shape as above but was chrome plated steel and these were probably used until sometime in mid 1948. Then the most common type appeared which was used until the end of 1955.
This is just an appropriation as the exact changeover is not known as far as I know.
 

Phil Davies

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Hello Glenn,
Given the early production low volumes, I would guesstimate at the very most, the first 100 machines produced.
Why 100, that is a usual 'of the period' production number for an external supplier (given that forging dies will have to be made and component materials ordered in). Also to consider that an order of 100 in stainless would result in a supplier invoice value that would probably make the factory accounts people pass out enmass!
 

bmetcalf

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VOC Member
Wasn't there a thread on the differences, maybe in 2019? I searched "kickstart" and "dog leg" with no results.
 

Phil Davies

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Non-VOC Member
Glenn - no idea of the changeover, except from the production numbers I would estimate early Jan through May of 1947 (as 380(ish) machines built that year).
Suspect a second batch made on the original forging dies resulted in the chromed steel version and then either a change of forging supplier (for a cheaper plain steel product) resulting in dies to suit a different forge and or original dies now worn out (possibly prematurely due to the curvature form of the original design), resulted in tooling dies to a different form of the original.
The latter scenario would align with comments within the other replies.
 

Robert Watson

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VOC Member
I can tell you a one family owner bike I restored in the low 2100 engine numbers had an SS one of the early style. I am 100% convinced it was the original.
 

Phil Davies

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Non-VOC Member
Hello Robert,
I used to own 2116 or 2118 (cannot completely remember which) - KLY 730 - early C (49) with straight rear seat stays, single brake anchor, HRD cases & covers, that was unmolested, come to think about it, that 'might' also have had a S/S version (as I recall, ooer!) - I have a photo somewhere, just got to remember where, gulp!!

Biiiggg problem with the factory is that, once past the late 48/early 49 period money was so tight they bolted on anything that was hanging around the stores to be able to move a bike on, so saying what 'was' (relative to a period in time) is a complete minefield because something will always counter whatever is said.
 
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