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Misc: Everything Else Comet Needs Electric Starter

craig

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VOC Member
NeedsStarter1.jpg

This Comet needs an electric starter and so an Alton Comet kit was purchased.
If others have accomplished this please advise on what to do.
Project starts today.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Where exactly did you folks reference to remove the 2 x 8 section of Comet outer case?

Do I install the new sprag clutch (at the engine sprocket), let it rub on the housing, then use the rub marks to guide where to Dremel material away? Maybe a thicker gasket could solve this?

NeedsStarter18a.jpg
NeedsStarter19a.jpg
 
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vibrac

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VOC Member
Just cut it by the picture its not very critical I was more interested in the depth of the slot when I milled it out A bit more oil on a Honda Clutch (if any) wont matter.On that and clearance for the shock absorber a bit of plasticene will tell you whats happening and the shock absorber grove if needed to be made in the cover 'nose' is minimal and some times not needed.
One thing to check is the amount of mainshaft you have the length sticking out varies a lot (hence the washers with later kits) you need sufficient shaft for all the bits to bear on.
If all this guff is worrying potential buyers...dont! I for one worry more about getting a front inlet pushrod in its follower cup :)
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
Craig, The bike I had here......I did not install the kit from the start, it was done by someone else.........The bike had done less than 1000 km's from that installation. The extra area it needed a whisker off, see your pic above showing the red section with the 2-8-2 numbers.......the right side upper corner needed a bit cut off that upper corner, as when the cover was on, this corner sat very close to the starter drive chain. Personally, I would attempt to remove the starter and its transfer gears through the inner cover to see how it all seals before you fit the inner assembly.......Afterwards will be too late........I'm not sure how it is set up exactly with seals and/or sealant on these parts.......... On this bike I stopped the main leak from the gearbox main shaft, but it still weeps a small amount forward of this, and around where the starter mounts from behind........Obviously where the inner cover sits on the engine, this area must have sealant used to prevent leaks from there as per an original cover/joint. Might just be worth looking to see what is what.........I would be interested to know myself.........Cheers.
 

craig

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VOC Member
Looking at areas to seal now rather than take apart later. It looks to me that that the thru shaft #2 will take oil in from the primary, fill the back mounted starter gearbox and then leak out the rear bush #2.

Filling this gearbox will allow leaking out the perimeter of gearbox (shown as #6).
also maybe leaks out the motor/gearbox joint #5.

NeedsStarter20Sealant.jpg

Also from inside the gear #1 (gear/hole) looks like to be receiving too much primary oil.

NeedsStarter20Sealan2t.jpg


Possible leak from grounding stud 6mm x 1.0 on back side.
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
Problem is you/ or I don't know what trouble the manufacturer has gone to to stop oil leaks at these places.........The twin starter kits don't have any components that run in an oil bath so no problem there.
 

Martyn Goodwin

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VOC Member
Applied sealant to inner case fasteners.
I am using ThreeBond 1184.


View attachment 42903
That's a silicon gasket material, not a purpose designed thread sealer - I would try to get it out and off now before its too late. If you let it fully cure you may only be able to remove the screws destructively. see post #10.

Before you ask - I do not have Loctite shares
 

craig

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VOC Member
That's a silicon gasket material, not a purpose designed thread sealer - I would try to get it out and off now before its too late. If you let it fully cure you may only be able to remove the screws destructively. see post #10.

Before you ask - I do not have Loctite shares
I don't understand this suggestion that this silicone based sealant would duplicate the effect of "red" loctite.
I think I have been using silicone based sealants (Threebond, 3M, Permatex, Hylomar) on threads and surfaces for decades, some times it actually works. I never experienced thread locking.
Should I be wary of this Threebond 1184?

But in this case, today, on the inner screw heads you see, the sealant ThreeBond 1184 is just topically applied. like paint.
 
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stu spalding

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VOC Member
I now use Threebond 1184 on "gappy" joints, gearbox end cover etc, in place of silicone RTV with no problems. For fine joints, gaskets etc I use Wellseal except for pushrod tube seal ET104 which gets a smear of Boots No 7 clear nail varnish..... honest!. Cheers, Stu.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Squeezed a bead of ThreeBond 1184 on the engine case web and installed the main inner starter case.
Clutch cable must be routed this config to miss starter.
Trial fit engine sprocket.
Check gap at clutch roller bearing = 0.030"min - 0.060"max.......this is the push/pull gap at the between case and roller washer.


NeedsStarter23.jpg
 
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craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Marked position of outer cover web section (2mm x 8mm) to be removed.
I marked one end of piece using my hole/hole alignment previously pictured.

NeedsStarter22.jpg

Then I cut out the section, crudely , with my trusty Dremel.

NeedsStarter25.jpg

The starter gear appears to have adequate clearance.
As advised by Greg.

NeedsStarter24.jpg
 
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vibrac

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VOC Member
Sometimes you can read too much on here :oops: I thought well its almost halfway through the riding season I did not worry a lot about sealing up the chaincase just the normal sealing of the cover so (worried of Bedfordshire) Id better take a look having never taken the cap off since building it...
Chain OK cant see the bottom run for oil (mainshaft oil seal mod used) I really should not worry so much.
 

craig

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VOC Member
Installed the Comet clutch basket/hub, torqued it down and locked the stud numbered 5 to one side. I had to tap the the base of the stud counter clockwise to free it up.

Numbers 1 thru 4 had to be removed to install the starter chain..............and also to drill out the
poly rub block to allow enough slack in chain.

NeedsStarter29.jpg


A lesson learned when installing this small starter chain. I found this position was best for me to allow master link to assemble. I can not explain all the nuances required to get this master link done, cursing seemed to help me.

NeedsStarter30.jpg


The top hole of the poly block required me to drill out to 10mm to allow adequate starter chain slack/clearance.

NeedsStarter31.jpg
 
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craig

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VOC Member
Purchased Loctite 243 for this new Alton supplied crank nut and future projects.
What torque value should be applied to this 1¼"AF=32mm crank nut?
Hammer blows to a well fitting spanner = 60ftlbs? more?

NeedsStarter32a.jpg
 
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craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I found a greasy steel ball on the floor yesterday, picked it up and put it on the bench to figure. Was it from a recent Honda S90 steering head ball redo job?

My assembly of this Comet clutch today found the lever was not moving the plates and then a reason came to mind!

NeedsStarter33.jpg

Burman clutch now actuating properly.
 
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craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Shorai battery on order yesterday LFX18A1-BS12.
This battery model is working fine in Norton Mk3 and Rapide.

Vincent Comet gasket set from Paul Holdsworth on order - pl_holdsworth@yahoo.com
Unfortunately no Comet gaskets in stock, but due in a week or so.
I think Paul has a hotmail address as well, I talked with him on phone yesterday.
Not sure what a "set" will be.


20201102_114323.jpg
CometM038aa.jpg
 
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vibrac

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VOC Member
The assemblies I have known all needed a larger hole in the polly block.
It will be interesting to see the survival rate of the 'shock absorber' with a Burman clutch as opposed to a Honda.
Cant give you a torque figure for the nut as the only place on a Vincent I use one is on the head nuts
As I said my impression is that the Comet seems to 'lug' more and I thought that may be the shock absorber feedback. However I did notice today that the rear alloy wheel I pinched from the creation of the racing twin has a neat '46' written on its sprocket and I doubt that it belonged to Rossie so I had better delve into my sprocket store and find a 48 tooth one (that may be harder than you may think as so many are for 5/8 X1/4 chain now.)
And as the great Bob McIntyre once said "speed is no a great concern o' mine"
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
I'm not entirely sure the nut picks up on as many threads as per original........I would double check.........The nut should ordinarily be done up to 75 to 80 Ft lb's ( no I'm not going to convert that to newton meters for all the metric nuts on here ) At any rate, I generally do them up with a pneumatic rattle gun anyway..........I would also resist using any loctite on it until you are 100 % happy with everything first.
 

oexing

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VOC Member
No need to convert Yard/hundredweights or whatever, I never use torque wrenches, only confusing. My theory is : A lot more bolts were snapped by torque wrenches than by feel on common spanners.
Yes, Loctite on that nut may lead to offensive language at a later stage unless you chose a low strength for peventing unscrewing once preload on nut has disappeared. I´d go for Locite 221 or 222, no "normal" thread lock, too much force on big threads like here. Maybe think about a tab washer that can be removed without force, even on a crank that you´d have to lock somehow unless using a rattle gun.

Vic
 

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