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Misc: Everything Else Comet Needs Electric Starter

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
NeedsStarter1.jpg

This Comet needs an electric starter and so an Alton Comet kit was purchased.
If others have accomplished this please advise on what to do.
Project starts today.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I had one of the first UK kits just follow the instructions supplied its easy and since getting a lithium battery that fits in a standard case i haven't used the kickstart. The ammeter goes back to normal after about a mile I will strip the primary this Autumn and see how it looks but so far so good.
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
Oil leaks.........The main one were the gearbox main shaft passes through can be sorted, but i think they leak from the starter..........I was unable to strip this one enough to sort it out, as some of the screws were loctited in and even with heat they would not budge.......these are allan head countersunk cap screws.........main issue with them is the allan key sizes are so small, they strip out if over torqued. The ESA assembly on this one failed as well, the small donut shape bushes seemed to deform, so the pins had moved fully to one side.........hard to explain........This engine does have a TP 600 kit on it and does go rather well. We locked up the ESA as it has a Conways clutch installed and these do have a shock absorber built in...........The Conways clutches are not without issues either........this one had a massive amount of run out on the sprocket, so much so we machined up a new one to fix it.........adjusting up the primary chain was hopeless. The outer primary cover shield area that wraps around the clutch goes awfully close to the new starter mechanism at the very top, visual with the inspection cap off..........just dremel a small radius on that corner, removing say 5 or 6 mm off it to give a bit of safe clearance. I'll let you know how I sorted out the leak from the gear box shaft hole in the inner cover area.........To be continued.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
it is at this point (Step 3) that the Alton instructions go belly up.

Instructions say " it is a good idea to connect the power cable to the starter and the earth cable to the lug on the back of the inner cover before installing the kit because access to these is quite difficult when the kit is in place".

No electrical lay out , no cable lengths to fit what install, where the supplied bracket is to be used, what fasteners to be used, simply refer to line drawing of circuits.

More beer is going to be required to solve any technical design issues today and I don't have any beer in stock.
Bye Bye
Craig

NeedsStarter8.jpg
 
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craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Couple more pics at this stage.

Trial fit looks promising, all lines up
NeedsStarter9.jpg

solenoid on bottom of batt tray, maybe best for my cosmetic look.
Cut holes in batt tray and Exide batt case to allow heavy cable drop thru to solenoid?

NeedsStarter10.jpg
Podtronics at rear of F106, i don't like it.
I am already missing the look of my Miller regulator box
NeedsStarter11.jpg
 
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Martyn Goodwin

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Oil leaks.........The main one were the gearbox main shaft passes through can be sorted, but i think they leak from the starter..........I was unable to strip this one enough to sort it out, as some of the screws were loctited in and even with heat they would not budge.......these are allan head countersunk cap screws.........main issue with them is the allan key sizes are so small, they strip out if over torqued. The ESA assembly on this one failed as well, the small donut shape bushes seemed to deform, so the pins had moved fully to one side.........hard to explain........This engine does have a TP 600 kit on it and does go rather well. We locked up the ESA as it has a Conways clutch installed and these do have a shock absorber built in...........The Conways clutches are not without issues either........this one had a massive amount of run out on the sprocket, so much so we machined up a new one to fix it.........adjusting up the primary chain was hopeless. The outer primary cover shield area that wraps around the clutch goes awfully close to the new starter mechanism at the very top, visual with the inspection cap off..........just dremel a small radius on that corner, removing say 5 or 6 mm off it to give a bit of safe clearance. I'll let you know how I sorted out the leak from the gear box shaft hole in the inner cover area.........To be continued.
May be a good idea to change over from the Burman clutch to a Conway's while you are at it - just to get the Honda ESA that is an integral part of the Honda clutch used by Conways
 

Martyn Goodwin

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Oil leaks.........The main one were the gearbox main shaft passes through can be sorted, but i think they leak from the starter..........I was unable to strip this one enough to sort it out, as some of the screws were loctited in and even with heat they would not budge.......these are allan head countersunk cap screws.........main issue with them is the allan key sizes are so small, they strip out if over torqued. The ESA assembly on this one failed as well, the small donut shape bushes seemed to deform, so the pins had moved fully to one side.........hard to explain........This engine does have a TP 600 kit on it and does go rather well. We locked up the ESA as it has a Conways clutch installed and these do have a shock absorber built in...........The Conways clutches are not without issues either........this one had a massive amount of run out on the sprocket, so much so we machined up a new one to fix it.........adjusting up the primary chain was hopeless. The outer primary cover shield area that wraps around the clutch goes awfully close to the new starter mechanism at the very top, visual with the inspection cap off..........just dremel a small radius on that corner, removing say 5 or 6 mm off it to give a bit of safe clearance. I'll let you know how I sorted out the leak from the gear box shaft hole in the inner cover area.........To be continued.
I bet the red Loctite was used on those screws. Loctite produce a grade for screws - its 220 or 222, purple in colour and pretty thin. That's the one to use on ANY of the screws - its not intended for Nuts and Bolts!
 

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greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I'd be interested to know if the starter has any seals where the shaft passes into the primary area.......I wasn't able to find that out on the one I had here as I could not get it apart. There is usually a need to "Get things together quickly" when carrying out these mods, so these things tend to get over looked in the process.
 

Graham Smith

VOC Hon. Editor
VOC Member
VOC Forum Administrator
VOC Forum Moderator
This is a great thread for someone to look at who is thinking of fitting a Comet starter.

It might come in useful for me in a few years time!
 

greg brillus

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Areas' 1 and 2 are likely culprits....... I think on this one, it was leaking from where the starter itself bolts on from behind......The shaft on the starter at position 1 might have a seal, but it could leak from between the two at the joint ....... I used sealant on the cap screws to seal any possible leak from those..........At position 3 I found it best to make up a cork washer and bonded it to the back of the large washer shown in Craig's picture above........The ID of this washer needs to clear the spline shoulder on the main shaft, and ideally it needs to run as close to the large hole in the new primary cover as possible, allowing for any end float in the main shaft. You don't want it binding the shaft.......I used a good quality spray on adhesive (3m product) on both surfaces before assembling the 2 together........Even if the glue fails, it can't really go anywhere, and it definitely stopped the flow of primary oil leaking from this spot.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Greg, I will look at sealing these areas, thanks for tips.

Not much progress today, Norton Club meeting, waaaaay too much beer.
However I am now technically competent.

Modified battery tray and Exide box in anticipation of Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 battery.
Solenoid will mount to bottom of tray .
Positive cable from battery will exit this slot and go to solenoid.
Ground cable will enter this slot to battery ground terminal.

NeedsStarter15.jpg


NeedsStarter16.jpg
 
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vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I am a bit lost on the comments on Cable lengths they are all cut and terminated properly and just fall into place. Since I dont feel the need to hide my upgrades I placed the Alton regulator and the relay on opposite sides of the F106 . in retrospect I would place them both on the forward face of 106, but either works and they accommodated my later change from a hulking great lead acid to a neater lithium battery OK as well all in all an easy job.
The comments about the Honda Clutch are valid I had one fitted years ago anyway I do get the impression the starter equiped engine does 'lug' more and I feel like I need to buzz the engine a little more by changing down quicker but my Autumn strip will tell all.
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I am unable to find any description of the electrical portion of this Comet starter install.
bracket position, electric cable dimension/runs, fastener uses, many fasteners in a bag, but no obvious use, no picture of finished electrical installation.
In fact, I find all the color pictures, which at first seem nice, to be almost useless because of the back lighting forcing the referenced area to appear too dark to be of use.

If you have installed this Comet system, please post photos
 

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