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Clutch shaft lockup problem

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#1
I am building a Shadow I brought in from overseas in large lumps.
Assembling the clutch and tightening up the nut C20, at a point way before the nut is tight, the whole assembly locks up.
I have tried removing the seal 18/1 to see if its that that is causing the jam, but it makes no difference. It is as if there is no "shoulder" on the whole shaft assembly the clutch nut butts up against. The chamfered face of the rear part of the clutch shoe carrier looks flattened by being up against a face somewhere.
I have to say that I didn't remove the clutch sprocket, as the engine sprocket and primary drive chain were already in position, so I don't know what's going on behind it.
I would appreciate any advice, as this kind of thing can take ages to sort out by trial and error (mainly the latter).
Thanks in advance.
 

john998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#2
Clutch

The most likely thing is that spacer PD21 is missing. This is the spacer that the oil seal runs on in the gearbox cover G2.
 

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#3
Thanks John. The spacer is on the clutch sprocket side, I guess from the MO14 drawing. Does it prevent the assembly compressing? It did seem to me there was a gap behind the sprocket bush when I was trying to figure out the problem with a torch.
Ah well, another few hours dismantling and rebuilding!
 

john998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#4
Clutch

The clutch carrier sleeve is nipped against this spacer, so without it things will lock up. The spacer is between the carrier and the inner of the output ball bearing. so is behind the clutch sprocket. John.
 

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#5
OK John,
I'll be looking at it tomorrow or Saturday, so I'll keep you posted on how things work out.
Best regards,
Allan (from Greenock)
 

Hugo Myatt

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#6
Allen,
A rare mysterious and possible cause. At one time Tony Maughan made a special C18 seal which was an alloy spacer with an O ring on the outer circumference. This was thicker than the standard C18 and so required a special shortened C20. If this special C20 is used with the standard thickness C18 the whole lot will lock up.
Hugo
 

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#7
Hello Hugo,
Thanks for the idea, and I think I read about this in the many disjointed bits of literature I now possess (the sure sign of a Vincent owner). But I think I found the culprit in today's dismantling. John (john998) is right - the PD21 spacer is indeed missing.
The upside is that it forced me to look at the other things that are dodgy. VinParts has another new order tonight!
New question on this subject - the inner ring on the output shaft bearing E91 turns on the shaft. Is this normal, or is something worn. If so is Loctite a solution, or...
Thanks, Allan
 

john998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#8
Clutch

Hello,
The gear box input shaft is an slide fit in the bearing E91. So long as the clutch nut is tight it is not a problem. It should not be a loose fit though. I would not us loctite on it.
It may be worth thinking about having a look inside the gearbox at this stage, just in case any thing else is missing.
John.
 

petermb998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#9
clutch shaft lock up

Don't forget the spares company when buying spares.
if you are a member of the voc you could qualify for a discount for spares
which you do not from other suppliers.
 

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#10
Hello John,
I had another look today and would say the bearing and shaft fit doesn't allow any radial play. Since the engine itself was completely rebuilt (new internals), I'm assuming that the gearbox was put together well. It's everything on either side of the crankcase itself that I'm systematically going through - timing side, gear selector/kickstart, and now primary drive side which weren't finished. What a learning process...
I'll keep you up to date with the issue when the parts arrive (Swiss Customs are water-tight and hold things back regularly to get the import tax)
Best regards,
Allan
 
#11
Plug the supplier time.

Don't forget the spares company when buying spares.
if you are a member of the voc you could qualify for a discount for spares
which you do not from other suppliers.

Just do the sums:rolleyes:

I know of one supplier that stays up till about midnight most nights emailing back his customers after they have asked him a question about a problem that they are having :D

Russ

PS. Alan, have you taken the gearbox out yet just to make sure that the gears are all in there :D
 

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#12
Hello Russell,
I have been setting up the gearchange mechanism following the handbook process. The gears all seem to be there, doing their job. I'm reluctant to start yet another project-within-a-project at the moment.
Best regards,
Allan
 

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#13
Hello John,
Following up the PD21 spacer issue, I replaced it yesterday and checked that the shaft wasn't binding. It runs easily now, so that's one less problem. Thankyou!
Follow-up question. The output shaft seems to be able to move in and out quite a lot (100 thou?). Is this another spacer issue inside the box? What end float should there be on the shaft?
Luckily, I'm going to replace the screws on the endplate anyway (to wire the two recommended screws, and maybe the rest) so I can remove the plate and look inside that side of the box without removing the drive side gubbins.
Any further help welcomed.
Regards,
Allan
 

john998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
#14
Clutch

Hello Allan,
The end float is set by a spacer E76 in the gearbox between the constant mesh pinion G6 and the input bearing. It is not critical, as the nut on the output sprocket holds the hollow shaft over to one side and the clutch nut holds G6 over to the other. As long as there is movement before those nuts are in place, to allow oil into the bushes of the hollow shaft.
A tenth of an inch should be OK, the only caveat is that if the constant mesh pinion is too far over to the clutch side, this will effect the depth of engagement of top gear.
As far as looking inside the box goes, the lay shaft will almost certainly fall out and you will be stuck with a tricky job. The only thing you have to remove on the gear change side is the kick start mechanism, held by one cir-clip. It is possible to assemble the gearbox without removing the cam plate spindle. Wire all the bolts and the selector paul hex on the gear box end plate.
On an different note I shall be missing for a while as I am going to the Hever Rally. Regards John.
 

aljobo

Website User
Non-VOC Member
#15
Thanks John,
Discretion is the better part of valour!
I'll leave things as they are, simply replacing screws and wiring them. I'm changing the primary chain at the same time.
Have a good rally!
Regards,
Allan
 
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