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Catastrophic camshaft and follower failure - any ideas?

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Evening All,

Oh dear - isn't Vincent ownership fun......

I wondered if any members have any ideas on what caused pretty catastrophic camshaft and follower failure on my 4000 mile old engine. Pictures embedded below.

The story is that I came to re-start the bike after re-fitting my refurbished dynamo, only to find it fire on the rear cylinder and not on the front. I traced it to a stuck open exhaust valve and suspected the valve lifter mechanism.

On stripping the timing side today, sure enough the front and rear linkage had become seperated and the front had stuck open the exhaust valve.

However, then things get worse. On checking for other damage/issues we found that all four cam lobes were heavily worn/scored and all four followers were deeply scored and worn - see the pictures.

Everything was invoiced as new in the top end and timing side before I bought the bike. More new parts than would sink a Battleship.

The work was done in Australia - I don't yet know the origin of the new parts which were fitted, but we have narrowed down the problem to one of three causes, I'd be very grateful for any other ideas, comments or advice from members on what to check/look for in advance of fitting the new parts I ordered today (ouch!):

1 - Parts failure
Perhaps the cams or followers weren't properly hardened

2 - Oil Failure
I have been meticulous in checking the oil return immediately on firing the bike, changing oil and cartridge filter at 500 mile intervals including priming the cartridge and keeping to recommended running in speeds and loads. The timing case is lovely and oily throughout, the valve caps have always had a good covering of oil in them when I have removed them and the new stainless rocker feed bolts are all clear and running through when you blow them - no metering wires fitted. So whilst of course it is always a possibility - I just can't see it myself.

3 - High Lift Cams
The lower valve guide is visible in the picture attached - we were wondering whether such damage could have been caused by a mechanical problem, perhaps the valve collar is bottoming out on the top of the lower guide before full cam lift and this is causing the damage. The cams which have come out are stamped "3" but the profile does not look anything like some spare old "3"'s I've compared them to.

Have we missed something?

Regards

Stuart
 

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pifinch

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Stuart,what a chamber of horrors, your cams must be lifting too high (lower valve guides not relieved) or someone has hand ground your cams with an angle grinder, I do not see why you have so many crude flats on the surface of the cams, you can knock the peaks off but the cams must always be turning, so you should not have flats on them.
Sorry, I could well be wrong but this looks to be an accumulation of earlier damage, good luck. dont lose heart
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Here's the picture of the valve guide I meant to add

Steve,

I meant to add this one originally, it should show the lower guide and valve collar.

PS I didn't do the dremel re-modelling to drain the vale guides - found it today......

Hi Stuart,what a chamber of horrors, your cams must be lifting too high (lower valve guides not relieved) or someone has hand ground your cams with an angle grinder, I do not see why you have so many crude flats on the surface of the cams, you can knock the peaks off but the cams must always be turning, so you should not have flats on them.
Sorry, I could well be wrong but this looks to be an accumulation of earlier damage, good luck. dont lose heart
 

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martinamotor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Valve springs to heavy?

Hello Stuart,

How strong are the valve springs?

Changing the oil and filter every 500 miles is a bit overkill, every time the filter is changed there will be a delay in oil supply unless you prime the filter chamber via A22/1, banjo bolt.
I change the oil ones a year no matter how many miles.
In 36 years never had any problem with cam/follower wear. Apart from a loose spindle.

I have seen a lot of worn cams and folowers, but your cams are really bad.

Peter
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Oil Change

Hi Peter,

I wouldn't change oil so regularly other than I'm running in a brand new engine - I always fully fill the oil filter housing through the banjo - "prime the cartridge" and use the kick starter to help get things started.

The valve springs are new parts on the invoice as well - I have been told of difference between some manufactured from 4.00mm stock as oppose to 3.76mm (sorry for new money) but can't discern the 1/4 mm difference with the spring in place (can't get a gauge on them that accurately). However I'm told they have been used in many other engine re-builds - as have the cams and followers.

Thanks very much for your reply.

Cheers

Stuart

Hello Stuart,

How strong are the valve springs?

Changing the oil and filter every 500 miles is a bit overkill, every time the filter is changed there will be a delay in oil supply unless you prime the filter chamber via A22/1, banjo bolt.
I change the oil ones a year no matter how many miles.
In 36 years never had any problem with cam/follower wear. Apart from a loose spindle.

I have seen a lot of worn cams and folowers, but your cams are really bad.

Peter
 

martinamotor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Using kick starter

Hi Stuart,

A couple of years ago , an Austrian friend of mine, Micheal Schartner, bought a complete restored Shadow in the UK. The bike was not started and was trailered back via my place. The engine was completely rebuild (bills to prove) and not ridden since. We looked it over and started the bike up, ran fine but was very noisy. We took the timing cover of and found cams and followers very worn. The reason for this was the previous owner kicked it round every month or so previnting seizing up.;)
Doing so he ground the cams and followers away.When cams are turning slowly the load is very high. New engines when started up should not tick over slowly but revs at approx 2500 rpm.good oil supply and no load on the cams.
In short, turning the engine over slowly to get the oil going is bad practice.

All the best Peter
hope you are not disapointed in Vincents. :)
 

hrdsuper90

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Installation ???

Dear Stuart,
What a sad sight - commiserations !
One group of possible problems associated with installing high lift cams like Mk2, are clearances. Guides need to be flush with the lock ring but there are a number of further variables associated with valves, such as position of the collar etc. Mk2's have a lift (at the valve) of .365" but I did install eccentric rockers that raised that to .405" , this looked like the maximum in an original head.
As a matter of course after a build I pre-load the tappet by .050" - .065" and gently turn the engine over and check the clearances. This checks everything, ensures the springs aren't coil bound and valve clearances to the piston. It's a simple check that served me well.

Regards, Chris
 

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Cams

I can only imagine that your machine has suffered complete lubrication failure to the cams or the quality of the parts used were sub standard, I think in the first instance I would get the cam followers checked with a rockwell tester (if you can find an unworn surface). Maughan had a tester last time I was up there.It will not solve your problem I know but at least you might eliminate one reason for this carnage
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Peter, you can run a file across them easily

Hi Peter,

Trust you're well?

Thanks for your interest and reply.

One of the problems with the Rockwell Test I'd imagine is that the followers have clearly got hot (friction/damage/loss of oil - take your pick) and I suspect that may have distorted any reading we'd get on hardness - however you can easily file them - and when I tried the same on an old rocker you can't do that on the working surface.

There appears no indication of lubrication failure, I meticulously check the oil return in the tank immediately upon starting -always working, I always fully prime the filter housing on oil change, the rocker feedbolts are all clear with no metering wires, there is a goodly amount of oil in the timing case and the insides of all the rocker covers are well oiled - there is no wear anywear else in the timing case, including the cam follower spindles which are perfect - so while I can't yet rule it out, I can't see how it has happened (and to both camshafts too). Any thoughts on what else I might check to see if I can identify lubrication problems?

You are right on the money though - I really do want to find out why this happened - I really don't fancy putting in some rather expensive new cams and followers only to have it happen again - that would be rather foolish (and expensive!).

The level of damage is such that my inexperienced thoughts and deduction, coloured by advice from the chap who is now helping me fix it, plus Forum and Jtan are tending to lean me towards narrowing down to one of two things now:

1 - insufficient mechanical clearance between the valve collar and the top of the lower guide causing the valve to bottom out before the cam reaches the top of the lobe. We're going to check that on re-assembly.

2 - insufficient care/inappropriate care when the engine was first started and run after the re-build which (may or may not be linked with suspect parts) then caused damage to the cams/followers which has then simply done what you'd expect it to over time after that once the hardened surfaces were damaged/compromised.

Any further thoughts, ideas or observations most welcome.

Cheers

Stuart


.
I can only imagine that your machine has suffered complete lubrication failure to the cams or the quality of the parts used were sub standard, I think in the first instance I would get the cam followers checked with a rockwell tester (if you can find an unworn surface). Maughan had a tester last time I was up there.It will not solve your problem I know but at least you might eliminate one reason for this carnage
 

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Cams

I would find it very hard to imagine that you could have a sweetly running Vincent for 4000 mls if the valve collars were clouting all four valve guides at 3000rpm, my money is on poor quality parts, if the cams and followers had reached sufficient temparature to soften all those surfaces I would imagine the whole lot would have been blued and the failure even more catastrophic, if you can file and remove metal from an untouched surface on a cam follower I would think that you have found you problem, or at least some of it, did you acertain why the valve lifter failed, I only ask because it also points to poor quality parts or workmanship.

Good Luck Stuart, you seem to really enjoy Vincent ownership, I hope you fix it soon.

PS If it is any consolation everything is fixable, when I first got my Vincent in 1965 the timing chest and rockers were so knackered the previous owner had ground away the top half of the rocker thread to continue getting adjustment, having said that my cams and followers still looked in better nick than yours do right now!
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Exhaust Valve Lifter

Peter,

We found the split pin (69) in the bottom of the timing chest (luckily). The operating rod for the front cylinder had then come adrift from the rear (ET166 had dropped out of ET69R). Once this has happened it had somehow got itself wedged and stuck - forcing the front exhaust valve open. The end had been snapped off the spring (ET129) but again luckily we found it in two pieces down at the bottom of the timing chest so I'm pretty confident we have no large pieces floating around - that's not mentioning where the "wear" off the cams and followers has gone though!

I had "felt" something strange in the exhaust valve lifter the last couple of times I had used it but couldn't quite put my finger on it, my starting method is as taught by my father, ease over compression using the lifter and then a positive downward stroke with no lifter in operation to fire.

And that's when I don't cheat and press the button to start....

I tend to use the lifter to stop the engine at tickover only less than 50% of the time (in petrol stations for instance) - usually I prefer to shut the fuel off and run the bowls dry.

I am now going to fit a "kill" switch into the circuit with the electronic igniton now that I have checked with Francois Grosset that this is an acceptable way to stop the bike with one of his electric starters fitted.

Yes - I am loving the bike to bits - it does most of my motorcycling miles now - I really enjoy riding it and am so looking forward to the Manx GP at the end of the month (so here's hoping I can get it all sorted and back together by a week on Friday - hence the rush).

Trying to look on the bright side (trying hard) at least it happened here rather than in the IOM - and within an hour of me diagnosing the stuck exhaust valve on Wednesday and reaslising it was beyond me to sort it I had two VOC members offering to fix it for me (both of them putting themselves out to do so), and within 24 hours it was in one of their garages, stripped, examined and spare parts (Godet manufactured cams, Maughan manufactured followers cause unfortunately Russ Kemp didn't have cams) were ordered and in parcels on their way - all with a bike almost 60 years old - now that's just a wonderful story in itself. It gets better - Patrick Godet sent me the bits cause I needed them in a hurry and then said we could sort the money out afterwards. He gets a Gold Star (not a BSA one) in my book.

The bike has always been noisy on the timing side from when I got it back from Australia after the owner had had the work done - with just 12 miles on the clock from an engine re-build - everything replaced on the timing side - my Dad noticed it and also the chap who is helping me fix it this time noticed it last year when he helped me with a couple of other bits when it had less than 1000 miles on it. The bloke who did the engine said that it might quieten down as the new steel idler ran in. I have often admired near silent bikes at the various meets though - have you listened to Colin Pearson's Shadowised Rapide - silent! Goodness knows what stress I've caused it, after 2500 miles I've had it up at the magic number once or twice.

However, again trying to look on the bright side (still difficult) I needed to take the kickstart cover off to re-grease the electric start sprag clutch (every year or 3500 miles) and was putting it off as it was a pain to remove the pipes - so I did it yesterday whilst it was all in bits. Reference your comments below - I also found a couple of loose bits inside the kickstart cover that should have been tight but weren't - perhaps that'll sort out the gearchange then!!!

I hope and imagine that if I make the Manx, then as I'm riding it round the Island the sheer shock and disappointment of what I found in the Timing Case will have abated, and I may even have got over the pain of the price of new cams (ouch!). I should have a pretty big grin back by then, but am still finding it pretty tough right now I have to say........and I've certainly learnt alot from looking over the shoulder of the chap stripping my engine yesterday, I even turned the odd spanner myself (under guidance).

Your bit about your bike caused me to laugh, when I got mine back with it came two large army ammunition boxes full off all the bits that had been taken off the bike and replaced - in there are 4 cams and 7 followers (haven't found the eighth yet) - every single piece looks like it would still do service to me.......ebay here I come to try and soften the expense of my repairs.

Cheers

Stuart

I would find it very hard to imagine that you could have a sweetly running Vincent for 4000 mls if the valve collars were clouting all four valve guides at 3000rpm, my money is on poor quality parts, if the cams and followers had reached sufficient temparature to soften all those surfaces I would imagine the whole lot would have been blued and the failure even more catastrophic, if you can file and remove metal from an untouched surface on a cam follower I would think that you have found you problem, or at least some of it, did you acertain why the valve lifter failed, I only ask because it also points to poor quality parts or workmanship.

Good Luck Stuart, you seem to really enjoy Vincent ownership, I hope you fix it soon.

PS If it is any consolation everything is fixable, when I first got my Vincent in 1965 the timing chest and rockers were so knackered the previous owner had ground away the top half of the rocker thread to continue getting adjustment, having said that my cams and followers still looked in better nick than yours do right now!
 
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andygbsmith

Website User
Non-VOC Member
I would imagine that the most likely cause is the hardness of the cams and followers.
Due to the damage to them it would be pointless getting them tested and there appears to be enough oil floating around to discount a lack of lubrication.
I'm surprised you didn't have issue's with valve adjustment and performance as the problem worsend.
My real concern is all that material has been going around your engine.
You say that you changed the oil every 500 miles, was there no sign of debris? did you also change the filter? again any sign of metal.
If it was my bike I think I would pull the motor down and have a good look, it could end up cheaper in the long run.
Andy
 

Tom Gaynor

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Worn cams and cam followers

Much time and money has been spent improving the lubrication on Sunbeam S7 and S8 motors because cams and rockers wore horrendously. Mine did. I replaced them, without altering the lubrication system, at about 13,000 miles. They're perfect, at over 33,000 miles. It's generally accepted now that (some of?) the original factory parts were deficient in the hardening department, and that BSA were a bit backwards at coming forwards to admit it. My guess is that yours are (were) too.
I bought "105" cams from Gary Robinson. I knew enough to send him the cam followers too. Last time I looked, about 3000 miles on, they were still perfect.
 

MartinRestorer

Website User
VOC Member
Hi Stuart
I would agree with Peter. If not insuficiant oil supply, the two faces of metal are eating each other, as mild steel.I had Gary Robinson from IOW
harden tip and reprofile my cams and followers to a mk3 profile he may be the man to send your worn cams and followers to for his assessment of the quality of metal and he could stalite tip and reprofile them as spare reserves.If fault is not first found.
Also a thought about your photos of your rocker bearing access to your valve looks tight and damaged do you have enough clearance for the rocker action. I ask this as I am fitting a new head to my comet engine
that needed extra material taken out for clearance?Hope you get the carrot [IOM] Im envious as my vincents are far from mobile.
Keep us posted Martin
Peter,

We found the split pin (69) in the bottom of the timing chest (luckily). The operating rod for the front cylinder had then come adrift from the rear (ET166 had dropped out of ET69R). Once this has happened it had somehow got itself wedged and stuck - forcing the front exhaust valve open. The end had been snapped off the spring (ET129) but again luckily we found it in two pieces down at the bottom of the timing chest so I'm pretty confident we have no large pieces floating around - that's not mentioning where the "wear" off the cams and followers has gone though!

I had "felt" something strange in the exhaust valve lifter the last couple of times I had used it but couldn't quite put my finger on it, my starting method is as taught by my father, ease over compression using the lifter and then a positive downward stroke with no lifter in operation to fire.

And that's when I don't cheat and press the button to start....

I tend to use the lifter to stop the engine at tickover only less than 50% of the time (in petrol stations for instance) - usually I prefer to shut the fuel off and run the bowls dry.

I am now going to fit a "kill" switch into the circuit with the electronic igniton now that I have checked with Francois Grosset that this is an acceptable way to stop the bike with one of his electric starters fitted.

Yes - I am loving the bike to bits - it does most of my motorcycling miles now - I really enjoy riding it and am so looking forward to the Manx GP at the end of the month (so here's hoping I can get it all sorted and back together by a week on Friday - hence the rush).

Trying to look on the bright side (trying hard) at least it happened here rather than in the IOM - and within an hour of me diagnosing the stuck exhaust valve on Wednesday and reaslising it was beyond me to sort it I had two VOC members offering to fix it for me (both of them putting themselves out to do so), and within 24 hours it was in one of their garages, stripped, examined and spare parts (Godet manufactured cams, Maughan manufactured followers cause unfortunately Russ Kemp didn't have cams) were ordered and in parcels on their way - all with a bike almost 60 years old - now that's just a wonderful story in itself. It gets better - Patrick Godet sent me the bits cause I needed them in a hurry and then said we could sort the money out afterwards. He gets a Gold Star (not a BSA one) in my book.

The bike has always been noisy on the timing side from when I got it back from Australia after the owner had had the work done - with just 12 miles on the clock from an engine re-build - everything replaced on the timing side - my Dad noticed it and also the chap who is helping me fix it this time noticed it last year when he helped me with a couple of other bits when it had less than 1000 miles on it. The bloke who did the engine said that it might quieten down as the new steel idler ran in. I have often admired near silent bikes at the various meets though - have you listened to Colin Pearson's Shadowised Rapide - silent! Goodness knows what stress I've caused it, after 2500 miles I've had it up at the magic number once or twice.

However, again trying to look on the bright side (still difficult) I needed to take the kickstart cover off to re-grease the electric start sprag clutch (every year or 3500 miles) and was putting it off as it was a pain to remove the pipes - so I did it yesterday whilst it was all in bits. Reference your comments below - I also found a couple of loose bits inside the kickstart cover that should have been tight but weren't - perhaps that'll sort out the gearchange then!!!

I hope and imagine that if I make the Manx, then as I'm riding it round the Island the sheer shock and disappointment of what I found in the Timing Case will have abated, and I may even have got over the pain of the price of new cams (ouch!). I should have a pretty big grin back by then, but am still finding it pretty tough right now I have to say........and I've certainly learnt alot from looking over the shoulder of the chap stripping my engine yesterday, I even turned the odd spanner myself (under guidance).

Your bit about your bike caused me to laugh, when I got mine back with it came two large army ammunition boxes full off all the bits that had been taken off the bike and replaced - in there are 4 cams and 7 followers (haven't found the eighth yet) - every single piece looks like it would still do service to me.......ebay here I come to try and soften the expense of my repairs.

Cheers

Stuart
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Latest update - any more thoughts?

Evening All,

To keep you posted here is an update:

1 - New cams, followers and exhaust valve lifter parts on their way (ouch!)

2 - Oil and Debris
Andy asked about it - there was a little bit on the end of the magnetic sump plug and a tiny bit of discolouration here and there in the oil on each change - but nothing that concerned me when it is an alloy engine with a load of new bearing/working/wearing parts all making friends inside. I have kept all the oil changes marked in sequence (anal) and the cartridge filters bagged and marked so I will take time tomorrow to sieve the oil and open up the cartridges to have a closer inspection. The oil dropped from the timing chest when we opened it up is smooth to the feel and no visible debris.

3 - Valve Springs
Peter asked about these, and funnily enough Patrick Godet's first thoughts were of valve springs when I rang him to order the new cams - and sure enough his measurements are spot on (thanks Patrick) - the outer springs actually fitted in my engine are 0.160" and KTB says standards are 0.150" - or 04.06mm versus 03.75mm for the younger chaps, so it looks like I have stronger than standard springs in the bike and perhaps this has been a contributing factor to the problem? What do people think (before I change them please)?

4 - So more parts....
So the heads are coming off and all the necesary parts to replace the springs back to standard are ordered.....(ouch again!!)

So, looks like I might just make the Manx GP, but you'll all have to excuse me the Annual Rally as I think I won't have anything left for the £8 B-B-Q now!!!!!!

Oh - and Peter asked if I still like Vincents, I love them, and particularly this machine and this experience is not going to put me off yet - but I am not too happy at the moment.

Regards and thanks to all - grateful for any further thoughts and advice.

Stuart
 
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clevtrev

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Evening All,

To keep you posted here is an update:

1 - New cams, followers and exhaust valve lifter parts on their way (ouch!)

2 - Oil and Debris
Andy asked about it - there was a little bit on the end of the magnetic sump plug and a tiny bit of discolouration here and there in the oil on each change - but nothing that concerned me when it is an alloy engine with a load of new bearing/working/wearing parts all making friends inside. I have kept all the oil changes marked in sequence (anal) and the cartridge filters bagged and marked so I will take time tomorrow to sieve the oil and open up the cartridges to have a closer inspection. The oil dropped from the timing chest when we opened it up is smooth to the feel and no visible debris.

3 - Valve Springs
Peter asked about these, and funnily enough Patrick Godet's first thoughts were of valve springs when I rang him to order the new cams - and sure enough his measurements are spot on (thanks Patrick) - the outer springs actually fitted in my engine are 0.160" and KTB says standards are 0.150" - or 04.06mm versus 03.75mm for the younger chaps, so it looks like I have stronger than standard springs in the bike and perhaps this has been a contributing factor to the problem? What do people think (before I change them please)?

4 - So more parts....
So the heads are coming off and all the necesary parts to replace the springs back to standard are ordered.....(ouch again!!)

So, looks like I might just make the Manx GP, but you'll all have to excuse me the Annual Rally as I think I won't have anything left for the £8 B-B-Q now!!!!!!

Oh - and Peter asked if I still like Vincents, I love them, and particularly this machine and this experience is not going to put me off yet - but I am not too happy at the moment.

Regards and thanks to all - grateful for any further thoughts and advice.

Stuart
If you get your decimal points in the right place, the younger elements might get it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

greg burt

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
cams

Stuart
A few questions if I may.
1 What oil(Brand) were you running before you changed to (Procycle oil) ?
2 How many miles has this Procycle oil been in use ?
3 You would have changed the oil and filter at least 7 times in 4000 mls ( the oil would have to be metallic if the wear started 4000 mls ago)?
4 How many times have you adjusted the tappets ?(Looking at your photos you would have been chasing the tappet adjustment from the start)
5 one of your recent threads stated you had a pushrod stuck in a follower and did you have the timing cover off to rectify this problem ?( If so you would have seen the Problem occuring )
6 I "presume" the cams in question are Mk3s ?(Not high Lift)
7 Looking at your photos, I get the impression the cams are Blue from Heat ?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Greg
 

BlackLightning998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Greg, here's the reply:

Hi Greg,

1 - Oil
15/40 mineral oil throughout except for whatever was in the bike when I bought it - I ran than for 500 miles and changed it. No metallic oil - as I said, I have saved every change and filter - tomorrow I will sieve the oil and open up the filters to check. 9 out of 10 times Procycle and once Halfords own brand ( a car accessory shop in the UK ).
2 - Miles
2500 miles. One fill with whatever was in it when I bought it, one fill with Halfords as above and 1 litre of what was in the petrol station when I went to the Riders Rally and it ran low after 400 miles on the way home having been on the motorway at 70 MPH for a couple of hours. Still loads visible in the oil tank and returning through the tank though - just low below the filler neck.
3 - Metallic
See my earlier note reference what I found and felt in the oil when I drained it each time - I looked and studied it meticulously.
4 - Valve Clearances
There aren't any tappets in a Vincent - but I have done the valve clearances twice - first time after I torqued the heads down properly after running in as instructed and then the second time about 800 miles ago - both times took up a little adjustment - but nothing exorbitant - I was told it as a little unusual to have to do it a second time though.
5 - Pushrod stuck
I lifted it out of the tube having removed the tank - and polished it and replaced it spinning fine - it spins fine now - of course I now suspect that the particular cam follower getting hot had contributed or caused that particular problem.
6 - Cams
They are described in the invoice for the engine work as Mk 3 105 degree. I know you know who did the engine work and they are his cams. The profile looks nothing like an original mark 3 that I have put alongside it though as a matter of interest.
7 - Blue from heat
The cams are not blue - but the followers certainly are - but with that level of friction taking place I guess you'd expect to see that. I suspect that the heat in the followers is what has caused the stuck pushrod and I now know that Russ Kemp was right when he suggested that I open the timing side and find out what was causing the stuck pushrod earlier on. Interestingly a completely opposite view was taken by some pretty experienced Vincent engine guys which was to leave it alone completely. If I had opened the timing case I may have found the wear problem earlier, or even the fault being caused with the exhaust lifter which has probably excerarbated the problem.

Hope that helps - look forward to your views Greg as I have watched your comments being pretty much on the money.

Regards

Stuart
Stuart
A few questions if I may.
1 What oil(Brand) were you running before you changed to (Procycle oil) ?
2 How many miles has this Procycle oil been in use ?
3 You would have changed the oil and filter at least 7 times in 4000 mls ( the oil would have to be metallic if the wear started 4000 mls ago)?
4 How many times have you adjusted the tappets ?(Looking at your photos you would have been chasing the tappet adjustment from the start)
5 one of your recent threads stated you had a pushrod stuck in a follower and did you have the timing cover off to rectify this problem ?( If so you would have seen the Problem occuring )
6 I "presume" the cams in question are Mk3s ?(Not high Lift)
7 Looking at your photos, I get the impression the cams are Blue from Heat ?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Greg
 

greg burt

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
cams

Stuart
On the face of it I would be getting the oil checked(chemist)
There is a few of us running these cams,( 4 of us in my area) and to my Knowledge No Problems .
My Mk2s have had one adjustment in 10500 mls and that was at 500mls( sorry for using the term tappets)(I also use 10w-60 full synthetic)that is just my choice, another word use a good quality and Brand oil castrol ,Valveline etc
I had an experience with a Mazda 3500 Deisel some years ago,it ran out of go ,on stripping, the cam shaft , followers and oil pump were (well like yours)the rest of the Engine was ok . I figured the oil pump was the problem with all the hardening off the teeth and pump shaft , rebuilt the problem area , filled it with Mobil Delvac and No problems for 5000 ks , the owner did his own oil change with his own oil , 1200ks later same problem, had the oil tested, the chemists report read may be used externally for warding off moister (Low grade)similar to WD40. I know this doesnt soften the blow for you it just had a similar ring to it ( thats why I was asking so many Questions).
Stuart I have NO affiliation with the said supplier.
Will be very interested with the out come . GOOD LUCK
Greg
 
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