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G: Gearbox Burman Help

vibrac

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VOC Member
There is no doubt I should have had a good sort out in storage room 17 a long time ago :confused:(The last scene in raiders of the lost arc :) ) now I have time on my hands.....
I have discovered about 2 cubic feet of Burman I neatly stashed away in a trunk a decade ago. good stuff some non Panther/Comet but some Vincent I need some but may assemble a box for funds. Anyway among it was this front section of what I call a kidney box I am pretty sure the rest is in the trunk but before I sort it I am wondering is this the box they used on the Flash? before Albion or on the A's?
1586086721544.jpeg1586086813548.jpeg1586086856909.jpeg
 

vin998

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VOC Forum Moderator
That looks like a pre war type used on the series A. Usually the A' gearbox number though begins with BAPH#### , then XBAPH##### but there were other slight varients of that coding used as well. I think the Rapide was usually 2XBAPH#####.
 

vibrac

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VOC Member
well this is BAPCA (picture 2 in first post)
I think I have found the other half
I am hoping the gears are in a pile with the other burman and perhaps even albion stuff (I think I got it dismantled) I hope there is a document or to to help me reconstruct! hours of endless fun here just very appropriate ... after I finished le grand stocktake
but looking at the carcase it looks like a bottom swinger al la Vincent
1586091332156.png
1.png
2.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:

vibrac

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VOC Member
This is the only ref I can find to a BAPCA box on a Vincent on the web ( here of course using search) talking about a TTC prewar Vincent back in 2017 so they were fitted co-incidentally I have some MCC lands end trial programs from 1933 showing the Vincent HRD Team. The Burman nomenclature is a real mystery hoping the CA bit is only gear ratios I am interested in using it in a post war Comet as was done on the early Flashes
(Always assuming I can get the bits in the right order :eek: )

I was asked what a TTC was! as there is part of in Australia,the only reference I can find is in PEI book one made in 1934 Comet special TTR engine Burman BAPCA gearbox made for Bill Clarke (Vincent HRD Director) for the Six Days Trial ?
 

A_HRD

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VOC Member
Tim,
The clue will be in the gearbox internals. It might be you just have a BAPCA outer cover; but if the gears have 5 dogs on them they are close ratio gears (with high bottom gear - or even low ratio trials gears). Let me know the numbers of teeth and I can identify them for you. I might even buy them from you if you're in selling mode..... :)
Peter B
Bristol, UK
 

vin998

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VOC Forum Moderator
but looking at the carcase it looks like a bottom swinger al la Vincent
Series A gearboxes pivot on the bottom bolt and the adjuster is on the top of the gearbox which is opposite to post war bikes. So the main shell at least is not off a series A.

The photos were initially posted upside down hence my confusion. The photos have now been rotated to the correct orientation so ignore my comment above.
 

A_HRD

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VOC Member
Simon,
I think you'll find that Tim has photographed the main shell upside-down, that's all. If you look carefully at the last photo you can see the 1/4 pin alongside the slotted casting (which has no threaded holes) - so all as per 1930s/early40s Ariel, Panther or 'A'. But certainly not an early Flash gearbox (way too early) - and the outer cover is definitely mid-30s.

Peter B
Bristol, UK
 

vibrac

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VOC Member
I just took a photo I have no idea which way is up however now I look I can see that there is a large threaded hole at side of the main casting side now at risk of showing even more of my ignorance that looks like where the lubrication enters, (grease oil?) if so then perhaps the slotted lug is indeed at the top. But the lack of adjusters makes be wonder how it was held (useing that pin?) and finally what about that quote that Mr Clarks Comet that had one of these boxes (PCV quote)
 

A_HRD

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Absolutely Tim, This box would have been used on the TTRs and TTCs - unless the customer wanted the std one.
Peter B
Bristol, UK
 

vibrac

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VOC Member
I also had a quick look at PCV snarling Beast book and speaking of the 1950 TT he says that the 15year old Burman boxes were not happy so they changed to Albion if they did it at Douglas in the IOM with few resources the set up of the gear box must have been similar to the Albion that followed which is a bit of a lash up (having done one)
 

Robert Watson

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VOC Member
Tim,
The clue will be in the gearbox internals. It might be you just have a BAPCA outer cover; but if the gears have 5 dogs on them they are close ratio gears (with high bottom gear - or even low ratio trials gears). Let me know the numbers of teeth and I can identify them for you. I might even buy them from you if you're in selling mode..... :)
Peter B
Bristol, UK
Hi Peter;
I know the TTR's came with close ratio dog style gears, however I can tell you that there are standard ratio dog style gears out there. I have a set in my TTR. I think they came from and AJW. Dan bought the whole box from somewhere in the South of the UK and put it in the AJS V4 but the gears howled like a banshee so a set of standard type gears went in. When I was building the TTR we were talking about dog gears and he allowed as that he had a set on the shelf, but were very noisy. About a week later he called and said I owed him $50 bucks. When questioned for what, he just quietly said "the steel for the new double gear and out put gear for the dog gear set. It was those that were the noise problem. Oh and for the steel for the broach for the double gear internal spline"
They have the same No of teeth as the standard type gears.

Plus for those that don't know, many of the pre and post war internals (gears in particular) are the same. I raided a late Ariel Sq 4 box for better internals on the A twin, but kept the original bits with all the right numbers on them.

Cheers Robert
 

Marcus Bowden

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VOC Member
Tim my handsome, why are all your pictures upsidedown? all layshafts are on the bottom otherwise it confuses folk, well it does me! I do have several boxes kicking around some pre & post-war. You will have to go through them when next down and between us will probably make some usable ones.
 

vin998

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VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Tim my handsome, why are all your pictures upsidedown? all layshafts are on the bottom otherwise it confuses folk, well it does me! I do have several boxes kicking around some pre & post-war. You will have to go through them when next down and between us will probably make some usable ones.
To eliminate any confusion I have just rotated the photos in Tim's posting so the layshaft is at the bottom. So ignore my post #6 above as the original photos caught me out as well.

Simon
 

Marcus Bowden

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VOC Member
Thank you Simon. We do have some smart buggers in this club, could I actually do it too, or is passwords required? Zoom is the next challenge as the executive want to use it too as we ain't able to muster.
bananaman
.
 

vin998

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VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Thank you Simon. We do have some smart buggers in this club, could I actually do it too, or is passwords required?
Marcus, you need to be a forum Moderator to be able to edit other members posts.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thank you Simon. We do have some smart buggers in this club, could I actually do it too, or is passwords required? Zoom is the next challenge as the executive want to use it too as we ain't able to muster.
bananaman
.
It aint rocket science but you need a decent connection (and have a shave :() 3 of us did it ok yesterday (zoom not shaving)
 

powella

Active Website User
VOC Member
These may be of use for identifying your box.

I think you have a early Square 4 box possibly 1937.

The cover numbered 4BA looks like yours and with its slot at the bottom this may be Ariel ( or Matchless ).forum box 001.jpgforum box 002.jpg

Take a look at the list of 4BA parts , there would appear to be 15 different variations !

The other page shows 5 Dog Gears.
 

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