Building a Vincent completely from VOC Spares Co?

dagriise@online.no

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Non-VOC Member
I tried to forsee the fitting problem by having Wyatt fit spindles, oil pump and bearings. The cases arrived whith spindles, and bearings fittded, but the oil pump was in a box. John Wyatt was asked why the oil pump wasnt fitted, and simply said that the fitter couldnt get it in...

From there on the story went on, and from later experience there are several people abroad that had nothing but trouble.. (unless you want to repair your new cases.. ) In my opinion you shouldnt have to take the cases to an "expert" to have such things fitted..

Dag
 

vibrac

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Our Egli racer used Wyatt cases I got them via Maughans they have done dozens they know what needs fettling and checking they will do as much as you like. In my case they checked out the cases and fettled them did the spindles also they checked out my bob weight flywheels leaving me to screw the lot together.
Also what is important when you have a start date for the racing season they returned the components on time.
The results speak for themselves www.oldracer.co.uk
 

dagriise@online.no

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I must stress, that im not saying the Wyatt cases dont "work", but they do, -as you say, need fettling and checking, something that should be done before they were sold, and sent around the world, -for some one, more or less competent, to find out that someting is wrong. ( a return freight from abroad, can amount to several hundred pounds) The cases are after all, a costly item on their own, and one should in fairnes expect things to fit. If something else is the case, one should sell them as "half fabricated items" to someone capable to finish them of properly. (and for the record there were issues with the other cases i got, but in this case the supplier stood by the product, and came up with solutions)


Dag
 

vibrac

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VOC Member
Even though the Vincent components from reputable suppliers are probably to better tolerances than in the fifty's and most parts are now redrawn and parts are no longer copied from 'the last one in the spares bin' One should never forget that we are dealing with a design that always needs some real old fashioned engineering fitting. It never was a 'screw it in place and race' design.
I am sure nowadays skilled assembly has almost been designed out. Sometime around the 70.s and 80.s was about as good as it got but then computers on vehicles and automated assembly finally sounded the death knell of the fitter,home mechanics and the local garage.
The lean burn engine would have made catalytic converters and all those injectors and electronic gizmo's unnecessary but then vehicles would have been too reliable-and who ever made money out of a long life car? even VW stoped the beetle
 

roy the mechanic

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The quality of the parts supplied is only as good as the assemblers ability to assess the problems! if you are not a skilled motor engineer don't expect perfection from a diy (read Do It In Yourself) ! Those that know reckon at the factory, it took longer to fettle the cases than to erect the motor. Go figure!
 

Tom Gaynor

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Lean burn engines DID make catalytic converters unnecessary. The problem was that only Honda had them. (They're the models with two C's in the model name.) GM did not. They did however own Johnson and Mathey who MADE CC's, so all they had to do was invent a health / green reason for lead-free fuel, since TEL - tetra-ethyll-lead (the company that made it was owned by GM, Dupont, and Exxon) poisoned CC's in a few hundred miles. It was (and is) harmless to humans once passed through an engine. With the cooperation of governments like that of the UK, it was surprisingly easy.
Here the government published graphs showing the drop in atmospheric lead after lead-free was introduced, thus making future generations safe. What they didn't show was that the slope of the graph hadn't changed since about 1935 when lead-free paint was being phased in and lead water pipes were being phased out, and that the elimination of TEL made not a blind bit of difference.
(All of this is from published material. You might care to wonder what the driver behind "bio-fuel" is. Its manufacture energy cost (mostly fertilisers and diesel) is about four times that of petrol and it's going to save the planet? Running cars on vodka? Really?)
 

dagriise@online.no

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Non-VOC Member
Im really starting to enjoy this thread! I Quote the one that started this threads, starting comment: "I'm a total newbie but have fallen hard for the incredible form and design of the Vincent bikes. I've done some tinkering on newer bikes such as the sx650 as well as have experience with vintage car restoration and would love to take on the creation of a Vincent."

Then one go on to cheer him on, but later on its stated: "One should never forget that we are dealing with a design that always needs some real old fashioned engineering fitting. It never was a 'screw it in place and race' design". THATS SOUND ADVICE TO A BEGINNER! But having to severly remachine lots of parts, to make them fit, is well beyond what one should expect. (im not talking the usual run in the sunnen honer, or retapping a hole or two.)


To my experience the crank cases is only one of the things that creates problems. I especially like this comment: " The quality of the parts supplied is only as good as the assemblers ability to assess the problems!" Thats really true! I have really had to start suspecting every part to be inferior.. Some sad findings are that hardened axles, that should be 5/16" bsf, are oversize, to the degree that you can brake them by applying a nut, and gears in the timing chest are so out of true from the bore datum, that my "toolmaker friend" and a fairly experienced vin, mecanic were both shocked and thick of laughter... ( we had to grind them on the outside, and both sides.. ) I will absolutly say its possible to build an cpl engine from scratch, but lets be fair and say there are lots of fit issues to take care of. What and were depends on wich manufacturers parst you have...

I must stress that even though this is starting to sound a little sour from my side, its all based on well measured findings, and confirmations to the problem by several of the "shining" experts, in the vin comunity..

Dag
 
B

Bikersally

Guest
Our Egli racer used Wyatt cases I got them via Maughans they have done dozens they know what needs fettling and checking they will do as much as you like. In my case they checked out the cases and fettled them did the spindles also they checked out my bob weight flywheels leaving me to screw the lot together.
Also what is important when you have a start date for the racing season they returned the components on time.
The results speak for themselves www.oldracer.co.uk

They did a first class job on my fake engine. I bought a new crank and had the heads rebuilt by someone else to speed up the process.
 

b'knighted

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VOC Member
If we go back to the original question it was effectively, can a bike be built from VOC Spares Company parts. Most of the replies have then gone on to talk of problems with new crankcases from various suppliers.
Who makes the crankcases listed by the spares company and illustrated on http://www.vincentspares.co.uk/acatalog/crankcase.html? Unless they are being supplied by the companies named in this thread, the question has still not been answered. Once Chinorlz has joined the club I would recommend that he contact Glyn J to enquire how well the Spares Co parts go together.

All in all, I suspect that rebuilding a used engine, or used bike, would probably be an easier route. A suggestion put forward in a previous thread was to buy a Comet, which gives something good to ride until a twin engine becomes available. It would also make a good basis for a bike to receive an engine built from new parts and will mean that the engine can go into use as soon as it is built.

Cheers,
 
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roy the mechanic

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VOC Member
as "the club" has already built+sold the new shadow it proves that it can be done! how easy is another story! now think on this- go buy a second hand twin power unit, if you can find one, with or without it's transmission. this peice of junk is around 60years old. so you pay around 6grand to own it. now be prepared to literally throw 50% of it away cos its like monty python's parrot, tired + shagged-out after a long squak, most likely needs specialist attention to restore the main bearing housings and many other insidious faults. for myself i have gone the "new" route at least it is the cheaper option in hard cash!
 
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