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Brake pedal spring anchor

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hello,
Sorry to ask again but I searched in "The Alternative Spares List" and in "Back to A" but I hesitate. What is the reference of the pedal spring (FT162/1) anchor? Does it is 560/1 ?
Does Conway sell both ?
Thanks.
 
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delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Hello,
Sorry to ask again but I searched in "The Alternative Spares List" and in "Back to A" but I hesitate. What is the reference of the pedal spring (FT162/1) anchor? Does it is 560/1 ?
Does Conway sell both ?
Thanks.
Hi Michel,
I think the alternative spares list has a mistake.
On drawing 25, It lists FT162/1 as Propstand spring and Brake pedal spring.
There are indeed two springs which are the same but I think the number should be part number FT162. [These would be the "barrel shaped" type with loose swivel ends, and FT162/1 the parallel, one piece spring]

It also shows the pin that the propstand spring attaches to, as F24A. This is incorrect. It should be F41 Propstand spring pin.

On drawing 21 is shown 560/1
My guess is it should have an F number originally, but I don't know it.
It is a 3/8 CEI threaded stud with a slightly ball end to attach the brake pedal spring. It has a thin locknut.
On the post-war bikes this is 560; a 3/8 CEI hex setscrew.

There are many more misleading numbers and illustrations, but of course definitive information is hard to come by for the pre-war bikes.
Cheers, Delboy.
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Michel,
I've never seen any 2 "Series A Foot-Brake Lever Spring Anchors" looking the same! So I decided to use some 'artistic license' and manufacture my own...View attachment 38296
Peter B
Just showing off you lathe work Mr B.

I recall, years back Glenn Shriver didn't have a lathe so, made a very close copy of the original part by using a post-war PD11 Primary chain adjuster bolt.
He cut it in half and used the ball ended stud as a reasonably good [as I understand it] original looking F**? or 560/1 as the alternative list calls it.
As I recall, the "A" torque arms goes inside the RFM lug, so the thin locknut would go on after the torque arm on the end of the stud..
Cheers, Delboy.
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Just showing off you lathe work Mr B.

I recall, years back Glenn Shriver didn't have a lathe so, made a very close copy of the original part by using a post-war PD11 Primary chain adjuster bolt.
He cut it in half and used the ball ended stud as a reasonably good [as I understand it] original looking F**? or 560/1 as the alternative list calls it.
As I recall, the "A" torque arms goes inside the RFM lug, so the thin locknut would go on after the torque arm on the end of the stud..
Cheers, Delboy.
Hmm,
just looked at PG251 of "Back to A" and the works racer appears to have its Torque arm outside of the lug.
On PG 246 the works hack looks like they are inside!
I need to enlarge what pics I have to see what's what.

Just to confuse matters even more, there are at least two types of lug that the torque arm bolts onto! The earlier one is a separate lug brazed on the tube and the later type the lug is part of the main pivot casting.
 

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
By examining the photos in my documentation, I see that most motorcycles do not have the spring. On others it is stud with a slightly ball end to attach the brake pedal spring as described by Delboy. And finally on others it is an anchor similar to F24A.
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
This is how my bike is done and the anchor I made 10 years ago copying what I assume was a rusty original.
Simon

Oh dear it shows the brake torque arm inside the RFM which will add to the discussion.

IMG_1422 - Copy.JPG
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks Simon. Lovely photo.

Typical Series "A". When something that appears to be what we know-we don't!
Talking to others and looking at what few detailed original photos there are, it looks like the torque arms were sometimes inside and sometimes outside at various times! Maybe it depended who built the bike? We probably will never know for sure.
Certainly, the important thing is the torque arms need fitting so that they line up as near straight and in line with the lug at the front and the brake plate pin.

As for the "bolts" at the front end of the torque arms.
The primary side one is the one with a "ball" on the end that at the moment we are calling 560/1.
The question is, what is it's original shape and size? Is it a ball ended stud, a ball ended bolt, or some other permutation?
As with other things, maybe Vincent's chopped and changed a bit over the years?

There seems no reason why the front fitting on the Timing side torque arm should not be a normal 560 bolt and locknut, a-la post-war.

Only nurds like me interested in this?
Back to the photos.
Delboy.
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
On my TTC, the torque arms are on the outside because it came with the composite/racing brake assemblies which are noticeably wider than std ones.
Yes, I'm a nurd too - and enjoy being one. It's better than focussing on all the anger and bitterness circulating around the world at this time.... along with Covid19.
Peter B
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
On my TTC, the torque arms are on the outside because it came with the composite/racing brake assemblies which are noticeably wider than std ones.
Yes, I'm a nurd too - and enjoy being one. It's better than focussing on all the anger and bitterness circulating around the world at this time.... along with Covid19.
Peter B
Nurds of the world unite!
I have a couple of snaps of a "560/1" taken from an RFM untouched since the early 60's. I know that doesn't mean much, but it does have the look and feel of an original part.
The only trouble is, I can't work out how to get them from Photos onto here?
Simple [I mean word for word!] instructions anyone?
Delboy
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Sorry, making a dogs breakfast of attaching a photo.
Lets have a stab.
On the primary side, "560/1" that looks to me like the correct thing. Complete with wear on the hexagon from kerb, chain? And a blob of Stove enamel on the end of the torque arm.
Torque arm from inside the lug. [Road going brake plates]
[For racing plates, torque arms outside.]

On the Timing side [Road going] the normal 560 Hex setscrew with head on the inside and locknut on the outside.

By the way, the "waisting" at the end of the torque arm is needed to clear the RFM when fitted on the inside.
Why they carried on doing this post-war when it was unessesary? Just for show?
Hopefully we're somewhere near.
Cheers, Delboy.
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi all.
A bit more trivia.
I have found a very high quality photo of the timing side torque arm at the front end.
This is from an "A" Comet untouched, yes untouched since 1939.
It shows a thin 5/16 CEI locknut on the outside, torque arm on the outside! and QED 560 or similar length hex setscrew fitted from the inside.
Good enough for me.
Cheers,
Delboy.
 
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Marcus Bowden

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
One thing for sure if a torque arm is fitted inside or out then the bolt will be fitted through the arm first so the bolt can be adjusted for swivability before the lock nut is tightened, if torque arm is fitted after the bolt then it is only the lock holding the arm, just a safety fact. All of mine are fitted as per post-war arrangement. To me the photo from Peter is the nicest idea with the Lightning style torque arm, I remember making a pair in the early days of ownership then I fitted a Stieb braking on a hill they bent when the outfit went backwards !
bananaman.
 
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