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H: Hubs, Wheels and Tyres Bearings


peter holmes

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VOC Member
Just about to fit a nice new Michelin Pilot Active tyre to the rear wheel of my D Comet, thought I would check the wheel bearings and brake linings whilst the wheel is out, all OK sort of, but I note one bearing has been running a little dry and there are signs of discolouration due to rust, first time I have gone in this deep since purchasing the bike, I also notice that the bearing cups (narrow) are both spinning beautifully in the hubs, but without any perceptible play, almost feels like a perfect bearing, but I guess it would be very unwise to leave it like this, any suggestions on the best grade of Loctite to use for this problem, or is this route not advisable, I will be reluctant to break the wheel down to fit a new hub if it is not necessary.
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have never used Loctite 660 Quick Metal, but I think it may be too viscous for a slip fit. I think you need to select by clearance. I have 638, so I would be inclined to use it.

Retaining.PNG

David
 

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As you know Vincent, I am still on Standard brakes at the moment, still saving my Euro cents until I can afford a set of your fantastic TLS brakes with air scoops, at the moment I can only dream, but one day......
 

roy the mechanic

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VOC Member
I did the quick metal"repair" back in the seventies it has been raced for 30 years and still good. Best of all the material was a gift.
 

Vincent Brake

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As you know Vincent, I am still on Standard brakes at the moment, still saving my Euro cents until I can afford a set of your fantastic TLS brakes with air scoops, at the moment I can only dream, but one day......
was it me and bloody big Johannes H. at the dance floor causing Sue to fall? than i have to make up....
 

peter holmes

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VOC Member
Update, 638 failed, Trevor warned me it would, but I am not ruling out slack procedures on my part yet, with brand new Timken bearings perfectly shimmed, I noticed after a couple of rides out that the bearings had lost clearance, the wheel was free spinning but zero rim movement, I re-shimmed the bearings only to find a few rides out later I had far to much rim movement, clearly one or both bearing cups were moving slightly, one bearing cup was loose again, predictably the drive chain side, and no, the chain is not to tight, even when sat on the bike and bouncing. I have now cleaned and degreased the offending bearing cup and housing even more meticulously than previously, ready for reassembly with Locktite 638 again, I have also ordered some Locktite 660 as per Roy's recommendation, I am determined not to break this wheel down if at all possible.
 

Albervin

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VOC Member
Update, 638 failed, Trevor warned me it would, but I am not ruling out slack procedures on my part yet, with brand new Timken bearings perfectly shimmed, I noticed after a couple of rides out that the bearings had lost clearance, the wheel was free spinning but zero rim movement, I re-shimmed the bearings only to find a few rides out later I had far to much rim movement, clearly one or both bearing cups were moving slightly, one bearing cup was loose again, predictably the drive chain side, and no, the chain is not to tight, even when sat on the bike and bouncing. I have now cleaned and degreased the offending bearing cup and housing even more meticulously than previously, ready for reassembly with Locktite 638 again, I have also ordered some Locktite 660 as per Roy's recommendation, I am determined not to break this wheel down if at all possible.
Peter, look what happened to Graham due to poor shimming of bearing. The bearing cups really need to be interference fit so you really have two choices (maybe three). Use liquid metal, new hubs and new bearings OR use a hammer and oversized drift to make a shoulder to capture the cup (OUCH).
 

timetraveller

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VOC Member
There is another way which I used when I had my first Rapide in the second half of the1950s, which just shows that this is not a new problem. Lacking any money or engineering skills or knowledge I got someone to turn up a steel ring which would be a tight fit on the outside of the hub where the bearing is fitted. I got the steel red hot and then put it over the hub so that it shrunk down and nipped the aluminium hub onto the bearing. It is probably still there although the bike was sold many years ago, LDV 854 if you currently own it. You will not be able to get the brake drum off with it in place
 

Albervin

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VOC Member
Norman, you must have been to the same school of engineering as the previous owner of my Shadow. The sleeve not only secured the bearing it also reduced the load on a massive split in the hub. Drive side of course. All now cured by a new hub and bearings.
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
With the availability of new hubs, just buy a new one.........you can strip the entire wheel yourself, and rebuild the entire hub, then get it laced and trued by a wheel builder for not much cost. I replace most of the hubs on bikes I restore, as the loose bearing syndrome is very common, and I don't waist time on them. It might seem a painful process, but it's not that bad. On the last one I did recently the hub bearings could move at least 20 to 30 thou sideways..........The outer flange of the hub on both sides had several cracks in it.......Oh and the brake drum had a crack from one side across to the other.............
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Greg, I do wonder sometimes at why people go to so much trouble to repair when they should replace. Terry Prince calls it the "British restorer" and after pulling my Shadow down I know what he means. New timing gears but totally crap cam followers. Electric start, indicators etc. but spaghetti wiring not suitable for a telephone.Dunlop Alloy rims and butchered hubs. I won't even mention the amount of grease inside the brake drums!!!!:eek::eek:
 

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Alyn, Well I can sort of answer your question, I was/am initially reluctant to break the wheel down because it is otherwise perfect in every respect, the hub itself does not show any other signs of being damaged or cracked, it was simply that the bearing cup rotates in the housing, it it not loose in any other way, in other words it is not slopping around in the housing, I use two books when looking for advice on Vincent maintenance and repair, Vincent by Paul Richardson and Know Thy Beast, Eddie Stevens recommended a Locktite repair, albeit 641 as opposed to 638, and Locktite, a seemingly well known and reputable company sell these products for exactly the application I used it for, such luminaries as Norman Walker and Roy the Mechanic also said a Locktite product could fix the problem, so in my book definitely worth a try, I think my container of 638 cost £10.00, well worth a try (twice) in my book, if it doesn't work I have other options as Greg says. It would be very hard to see how the problem I have could end up with the catastrophic failure that Graham suffered, I have not spoken to Graham, but I am sure that he must have been aware that something was very seriously wrong with the rear wheel on that bike long before it failed in such a catastrophic fashion, I have never seen anything quite like it.
 
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