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Misc: Charging Systems Battery for Electric Start Series ‘C’ Rapide


danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Hi
I need a new battery for my Rapide C with Grosser electric start. The current Yuasa YTX-14BS isn’t holding a charge, maybe through
not using the bike much over winter. I keep it charged with a battery conditioner but it’s not on constantly.
Just wondering if there’s an Odyssey variant of the YTX-14BS or is the Yuasa the best bet?
Any help appreciated.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I’ve just bought a CTEK charger from Tayna.
 

stu spalding

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Danno, if you can handle the expense, £200, the best bet is an 18ah Shorai LiFe battery from Carrot Cycles. I used 14ah lead acid for years but it was marginal. They also do a replica Exide case that the battery is a snug fit in. Cheers, Stu.
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Echoing Stu. I guess it depends on what you can afford. The Shorai is painful in the wallet but the business on the bike. Mine is fitted inside a dummy battery case and I've removed the kickstart. (Having seen the price of a new kickstart the Shorai looks less expensive.;))
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Thanks for the replies. TBH I don’t use the electric start mainly due to fear of it running the battery down. Also gives me a chance to learn the kick
start technique. :)
I guess if I’ve got a battery that turns it over without any problem and starts ok then I could possibly remove the kickstart.
Will check out the Shorai. Four times the price of the Yuasa. If it starts the Vin no problem and lasts a lot longer, it may be worth fitting.
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Shorai requires a charging system that produces a minimum of 13.1 volts at idle for their batteries.
If you run with lights on this will only happen with a very strong charging system. My Alton won't do it.
In fact, the Alton doesn't produce 13.1 at idle with lights switched off.
A Walkenator or McDougallator might.

One other note- the actual storage capacity of the LFX-18 Shorai is just over 6 Amphours. This amount is available if drawn from fully charged at 14.4 volts to fully discharged at 12.9 volts. If your system can only charge to 13 .5 volts like my Alton, then you only have about 3AH storage.
If you happen to be sitting in traffic at night, idling with the lights on when the system drops to 12.9 , everything shuts off.
It's quite the alarming sensation!



Glen
 
Last edited:

peter holmes

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
As I said, I would stick with the Yuasa, it is more than adequate and also the battery that Francois Grosset recommends, but I do have the benefit of a Walkernator working with a Nippon Denso alternator which pumps out all you will ever need, even on tickover.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Thanks for the tech info Glen.
Yes, that could be a problem. The bike has a Lucas Rita system fitted and the red charging light glows at tickover.
With lights on, the voltmeter doesn’t rise above zero until higher revs.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
As I said, I would stick with the Yuasa, it is more than adequate and also the battery that Francois Grosset recommends, but I do have the benefit of a Walkernator working with a Nippon Denso alternator which pumps out all you will ever need, even on tickover.
Yes, the Francois Grosset electric start was fitted in the mid nineties and it’s always had Yuasa batteries.
I think I’d be more inclined to upgrade the charging system if required. My late father fitted it all out, complete with indicators. As far as I know, the Rita is adequate for charging the 12v system but I could do with more when running lights.
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Lucas Rita ignitions draw a pretty big current. I ran one for a few years and finally changed it out to something more modern which draws way less power. If I recall the Rita would show about a constant 4+ amp drain which I could live with as I have a 200 W permanent magnet alternator for charging. I opted to try smaller coils that would fit under the mag cowl instead of the recommended pair of large Lucas 6V ones running in series. Even though the small ones were rated 3 ohms, they usually fried every 3000 miles or so.
I have been with Glen and others when the Shorai has died. A pretty frustrating scene.

I am afraid that unless there is a substantial charging system as Glen has indicated, I would stick with lead acid batteries, especially with that ignition.
 

Glenliman

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Re the Odyssey- there is a 12ah Odyssey that is similar in size to the Yuasa Ytx-14(12ah).
Every report I've read on Odyssey batteries is positive.
On the Norton Forum there are some Norton Commando MK3 estart owners using these.
One reported that the battery was still strong for estarting after 12 years of use, another had 10 years on his Odyssey battery.

Glen
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Re the Odyssey- there is a 12ah Odyssey that is similar in size to the Yuasa Ytx-14(12ah).
Every report I've read on Odyssey batteries is positive.
On the Norton Forum there are some Norton Commando MK3 estart owners using these.
One reported that the battery was still strong for estarting after 12 years of use, another had 10 years on his Odyssey battery.

Glen
Yes, my 2 BM’s have Odyssey batteries. Fit and forget.
With lead acid type on my R60/6, I was left stranded a couple of times in cold weather.
 

BigEd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Shorai requires a charging system that produces a minimum of 13.1 volts at idle for their batteries.
If you run with lights on this will only happen with a very strong charging system. My Alton won't do it.
In fact, the Alton doesn't produce 13.1 at idle with lights switched off.
A Walkenator or McDougallator might.

One other note- the actual storage capacity of the LFX-18 Shorai is just over 6 Amphours. This amount is available if drawn from fully charged at 14.4 volts to fully discharged at 12.9 volts. If your system can only charge to 13 .5 volts like my Alton, then you only have about 3AH storage.
If you happen to be sitting in traffic at night, idling with the lights on when the system drops to 12.9 , everything shuts off.
It's quite the alarming sensation!
Glen
Some good points Glen. I hadn't taken in to account what charging system Danno has fitted. I have a Walkernator installation so I have plenty of power for heated gloves, indicators lights, etc and topping up the battery.
I have never measured the voltage output on the Walkernator but there is always plenty of starting power available.
I use the same Shorai battery on my 996 Ducati. I have a digital volt meter on the Ducati and this shows that voltage is regulated to a maximum of 13.6 Volts. There is always plenty of power available here too. I notice that Shorai quote for the LFX18 18 Amp/hour (lead equivalent) and cranking amps at 270 I don't know how these two sets of figures relate to one another and potential performance.
I would recommend a charging system upgrade to anyone who intends to use their Vincent for the benefit of better lighting and easy access to quality 12-volt bulbs.
If Danno needs to buy a battery (whatever the type) and a new charging system it may be too big a hit on his bike budget.
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
I would recommend a charging system upgrade to anyone who intends to use their Vincent for the benefit of better lighting and easy access to quality 12-volt bulbs.
If Danno needs to buy a battery (whatever the type) and a new charging system it may be too big a hit on his bike budget.
Yes, I think for now, a new Yuasa YTX14-BS and look at changing to led lights
if fitting is fairly straight forward.
Thanks for the help.
 

rapcom

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Danno, look deeper into specs.
YTX14-BS is 200CCA
YTX14H-BS is same size but 240CCA, better for electric starter. (According to Yuasa website)
 

danno

Well Known and Active Website User
Non-VOC Member
Danno, look deeper into specs.
YTX14-BS is 200CCA
YTX14H-BS is same size but 240CCA, better for electric starter. (According to Yuasa website)
Thanks
Yes, saw that on Tayna but didn’t look much into it.
 

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