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Banjo union pipe for Comet

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hello,
Does anyone know where to buy A48 (5/16") and A48/1 (3/8") banjo union?
Thanks for your advices.
Michel.
 

vibrac

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Using the search term Banjo the club shop has A48,A61AS,A62AS,A77AS (Comet) I think thats all you need on a standard set up
A66 is associated with pump feed pipes
 

Ian Savage

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
3/8" or 7/16" is one the (many) errors in the parts books.
Series A feed pipe is 3/8" (id hose, od fittings) post war B, C and D feed pipe is 7/16" (id hose, od fittings).
The banjo in the bottom of the A66AS feed pipe is probably a Series A 3/8" banjo soldered in a 7/16" od pipe.
 

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Hi Vibrac, the club shop sells only 1/4" banjo.
Hi Ian, in the Conway Serie A list (old one from 2006) I read the same error A48 5/16" and A48/1 3/8" !
As pipes are 3/8", the banjos need to be the same, isn't ?
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
I think there is some confusion going on with terminology and with pre war bikes v post war bikes and I think Michel is asking about series A bike and also asking about the Banjo union which is the metal fitting that pushes inside the ends of the rubber pipe. So here goes:

On the rubber return pipe is 5/16" internal diameter and the O/D of the metal pipe part of the banjo union A48 is 5/16" to fit inside the rubber pipe. VOCS do list this as its used on the post war bikes as well but both they and the Vincent spares parts list it as "A48 as Banjo 1/4 BSP" which is a confusing description and I assume is refering to the fact it fits to the engine with a banjo bolt which is 1/4 BSP fitting. In the series A alternative spares list A48 description as "Banjo Union 5/16" bore pipe" which is referring to the rubber pipe bore. It is the same A48 though whatever the differing describing names.

On the supply pipe the rubber pipe internal is 3/8" diameter and so the O/D of the metal pipe part on the banjo union A48/1 is also 3/8" diameter. This banjo union is not used on the series B, C or D due to its side and I don't think VOC Spares list it on their website and I don't know where to find such a fitting. In the series A alternative spares list A48/1 description as "Banjo Union 3/8" bore pipe" which again is referring to the rubber pipe bore.

Both of the above fittings A48 & A48/1 then connect to the oil pump using A22 banjo bolts (not to be confused with banjo union) and these are all 1/4 BSP thread but be aware 1/4 BSP is not 1/4" diameter.

So much confusion with so many different descriptions of parts but which all have the word banjo in them.

Simon
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Here is an example of the confusion for A48:
VOC Spares & Vincent spares parts list describe it as "1/4 BSP banjo
Series A alternative list describes A48 as "Banjo Union 5/16" bore pipe"

Both of the above are the same part with the same dimensions and fit a 1/4 BSP banjo bolt and also fit a rubber hose pipe with 5/16" internal bore.
A48.jpg
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Here is an example of the confusion for A48:
VOC Spares & Vincent spares parts list describe it as "1/4 BSP banjo
Series A alternative list describes A48 as "Banjo Union 5/16" bore pipe"

Both of the above are the same part with the same dimensions and fit a 1/4 BSP banjo bolt and also fit a rubber hose pipe with 5/16" internal bore.
View attachment 37314
Hi Simon and folks,
well, I think that A48/1 might not exist- as a number!
Rather it should be numbered A29.
Just to be clear, we are talking about the hot stamped brass 1/4 BSP banjo, but one with a 3/8" OD pipe for use on the pump feed of the Series A.
I have seen a works drawing for the post-war pump feed pipe for the 500cc [A66/2AS] and this shows part A29 Banjo "Sweated" into the feed pipe.
I think this is the very same hot stamped brass banjo with the 3/8" pipe, which I think is a "left over" Series A part.
What fun.
regards, Delboy.

Possibly later they made a simpler dedicated turned part to fit the post-war pump feed pipe.
 

A_HRD

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
vin998 said:
"Both of the above fittings A48 & A48/1 then connect to the oil pump using A22 banjo bolts (not to be confused with banjo union) and these are all 1/4 BSF thread but be aware 1/4 BSF is not 1/4" diameter".

But of course, BSF (twice) is a typo - the thread is 1/4 BSP. Typically 13.16 mm / 0.518" OD and 19 tpi.

Peter B
 

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Simon,
I still don't understand. If A48/1 (3/8 ") is the bore of the A66AS/1 oil feed rubber hose (of course 3/8"), the pump-side union banjo must also be 3/8" and therefore cannot be the A48 which is for the bored rubber hose 5/16 ".
Where is the error ?
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Mic
Dear Simon,
I still don't understand. If A48/1 (3/8 ") is the bore of the A66AS/1 oil feed rubber hose (of course 3/8"), the pump-side union banjo must also be 3/8" and therefore cannot be the A48 which is for the bored rubber hose 5/16 ".
Where is the error ?
Dear Michel,
please read my earlier post.
I believe A48/1 to be an invented number by somebody [not the factory], and it's real pre-war number is A29.
This A29 [A48/1] has a 3/8" OD pipe [NOT 5/16" as with A48]
A29 is used on the feed side of the oil pump.
Regards, Delboy.
 

vin998

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Dear Simon,
I still don't understand. If A48/1 (3/8 ") is the bore of the A66AS/1 oil feed rubber hose (of course 3/8"), the pump-side union banjo must also be 3/8" and therefore cannot be the A48 which is for the bored rubber hose 5/16 ".
Where is the error ?

Michel
A48 is the fitting for the 5/16" bore rubber pipe and this same fitting was used on the series B & C etc.

What you call A48/1 is virtually the same shape and size as A48 except the metal tube part is 3/8" outside diameter so it will fit the bore of the larger diameter rubber tube. The part of that fitting which engages with the banjo bolt is the same size on both types as the banjo bolts for both were the same size. Have a look at your oil pump and you should see all four of the oil pipe fitting holes in the pump body are all tapped the same thread size to take the same banjo bolt size.

The part number A48/1 is suspected to have been made up for the VOCS series A spares list as no original Vincent factroy series A parts list existed. If you read the post above by Delboy he suspects the correct part number was A29.

Simon
 

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Delboy, dear Simon,
And so contrary to what is mentioned inthe Alternative Spare List Serie A, there are three union banjos A48/1 or A29 (3/8 "), one for A58AS oil return hose (3/8") and two A66AS/1 oil feed hose (3/8"). Did I understand correctly and is this correct ?
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Delboy, dear Simon,
And so contrary to what is mentioned inthe Alternative Spare List Serie A, there are three union banjos A48/1 or A29 (3/8 "), one for A58AS oil return hose (3/8") and two A66AS/1 oil feed hose (3/8"). Did I understand correctly and is this correct ?
Dear Michel,
First. DISREGARD what it says in the Alternative "A" spares list.
Yes, it is wrong. It was written in good faith, but is wrong.
I assume we are talking about a 500cc.
Lets start from the oil tank.
The feed banjo at the bottom will be Hot pressed brass A29 with a 3/8 OD pipe.
At the pump, the feed banjo will again again be an A29.
The pump return and the cylinder feed uses Hot pressed brass banjo A48 with a 5/16" OD pipe which is the same as the post-war item.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Delboy.
 

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Delboy,
So there is an inversion of reference in the Alternative A.
A58AS is the 3/8" oil feed hose with the single A48/1 union banjo (or A29) on the oil pump. A66AS/1 is the 5/16" return hose with two A48 union banjo (plus two A48 for the OP pump cylinder hose 5/16 "too).
Did I finally get it ?
Regard.
Michel.
 

delboy

Active Website User
VOC Member
Dear Delboy,
So there is an inversion of reference in the Alternative A.
A58AS is the 3/8" oil feed hose with the single A48/1 union banjo (or A29) on the oil pump. A66AS/1 is the 5/16" return hose with two A48 union banjo (plus two A48 for the OP pump cylinder hose 5/16 "too).
Did I finally get it ?
Regard.
Michel.
Dear Michel,
no, I'm afraid not, but nearly there.
On the drawing No16 of the alternative list.
A58AS is the 5/16" ID return pipe, with an A48 at the pump
A66AS/1 is the 3/8" ID pump feed from the oil tank bottom to the pump. It has an A29 on each end. [Note A66AS/1 is drawn the wrong shape, look at an original photo or in "Back to A". If you haven't got one, you really, really should]
And, yes there are two A48 banjos for the cylinder feed.

All I can say is do not take ANYTHING as Gospel in The "A Alternative spares list, it has many errors and is merely a guide
Hope the penny's dropped.
regards, Delboy.
 

Michel

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
But on my Comet, the metal pipe welded on the oil tank to which A58AS is connected is 3/8"and not 5/16". So on my bike the two oil hoses (feed and return) are in 3/8" as we can see (with a magnifying glass) on fig.95 page 187 of the Richardson and as I seen on an other Comet in France. Surprising isn't it, and reason for all this confusion !
Some one has an explanation or a hypothesis ?

PS: all the other hoses are well in 5/16".
 
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