Anyone recognise this?

Ichy500

New Forum User
Non-VOC Member

Hello,

I bet it is a Fichtel&Sachs 200 cc for a Messerschmitt Cabinescooter - Stroke 58 and Bore 65 mm. Look at the left side end of the cover- the boss for the kickstart is plugged and there is a small thread in front of the block to fit a cable to get in the neutreal gears between all the gears - so it is not an engine for a bike. The rusty bracket at the right side end is typical for the Me. The cover behind the block is the same as in front of the picture. The Dynastart is missing at the right side of the crankshaft and the clutch is missing.
Approx 150.000 miles done with mine since 1976.....

Cheers Thomas
 

ET43

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
I agree with Thomas. Look at the position of the transfer ports, indicating a carb set sideways so that a cooling shroud could be fitted. The hexagonal bolt on the l/h side of the crank case is pure Sachs, as is the clutch lever, almost the same as my Hercules K50SX from 1971. Cheers, ET43
 

clevtrev

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I agree with Thomas. Look at the position of the transfer ports, indicating a carb set sideways so that a cooling shroud could be fitted. The hexagonal bolt on the l/h side of the crank case is pure Sachs, as is the clutch lever, almost the same as my Hercules K50SX from 1971. Cheers, ET43

Was that the Hercules from that well known yard of Steptoe and son ?
 

ET43

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Trev, I could say something rude, but you know I'm not like that, Ho Ho Ho. This Hercules once blew off a Comet going up hill which is more than that old nag would do. At the 1979 W.H.R. P.E.I told me that he reckoned it produced around 11bhp, and likened me sitting on it to be like a plum sat on a razor blade. Hmmm. ET43
 

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Phil, think about it.. 11 bhp from 50 cc is 2,200,000 ( well, 220) per litre!!! In 1971 Yamaha, Suzuki & Kawasaki were in an arms race for max. bhp. My RD 350 was producing (somewhere) between 30 & 40 bhp & the Kawasaki Mach III was getting (maybe) 60 bhp. Both equate to somewhere between 100 & 120 bhp/litre. My 1969 Bridgestone 90 DeLuxe boasts 8.5 bhp & the 100 Sport (supposedly) has 10.5 bhp. Back in 1971 nothing under 175 could match me ( I was a bit lighter then). With a "race kit" the Bridgestone 100 was putting a genuine 15 bhp at the rear wheel. All of these were either rotary disc valve or reed valve induction. Surely Sachs was not twice as efficient as the Japs regarding production machines? The factory specs quote 5.3 ps which is comparable to the Jap stuff. Back in the late 1970s I had a Puch M125 that would trounce anything up to 250 ( or even a bit more) because it handled brilliantly and had awesome brakes. I doubt that it had much more than 12-13 bhp but they were all useable. Top speed was a smidgen over 65 mph, about the same as the Bridgestone.
 

ET43

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
Hi Albervin, My Hercules, bought in Bermuda in 1971, put out 7.12 sae hp. I was asked by the dealer to thrash the fastest moped on the islands with it. This was a tuned Mobylette running a 25mm Carb! It had a prewar higher gear ratio and was good for over 60mph. The speed limit in the islands outside of town is 20mph!!
I did thrash the Moby., and that night my Herc. was stolen and dissasembled. When I got it back I rebuilt it as a replica G.P. racer, having reduced the weight to 122 lbs, runing it on 2" x 19" moped tyres. It was tuned over a period of years by me, up until I took it off the road in 1979. During that year I was stopped by one of the boys in blue, on his 650 Triumph. He was quite rude, so much so that I said I was going home without a ticket, or else I would report him for using foul language, but then asked him what he had clocked me at. 78mph you little sod, he said. So I said that this was not bad for a fifty to which he replied that he would have me the next time he saw me. Nah, I said, you won't, because I shall be on my Shadow, and with that I rode off home. My late wife Yvonne used to ride this thing and once asked me what 140kph was in mph, so I said, around 85mph, why? She had seen a reading of this on the speedo on a long straight. She weighed 7 stone dripping wet. The bike ran up to 14,400 rpm's, and even with my lard Arse on, I could whack any 125 on the road at that time. The 1968 Suzuki T.T. machines put out 12bhp, so all in all, I was quite confident that P.E.I had got it right. I am rebuilding it now and will bring it to rallies, hopefully behind the forthcoming trike. Cheers, ET43
 

Little Honda

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
No, youngjohn, it is not! You probably mean the Messerschmitt KR200-engine of Sachs origine. But, I can assure you, it isn´t a
Sachs, which has only one oval cover on the left engine side, with the name "SACHS" cast in, not two halfes! On its right side,
there is a huge casting for the fan cooling, which this engine doesn´t have.
I am sorry, I cannot help any further, but I haven´t seen it in Germany, so far.
Alors, qu est que cést, maintenant?
Little Honda
 

youngjohn

Well Known and Active Forum User
Non-VOC Member
If you look at this picture:
http://www.messerschmitt.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94&Itemid=1
you will see that it is pretty much the same. Note the gearbox oil filler, the screw holes for the side covers and the engine mounts. The castings for the fan cooling are bolt on and are missing. As I said in my post, the Sachs engine was supplied to many manufacturers, and used in scooters and other microcars, it may not be a Messerchmitt engine, but it is a Sachs! I have had several KR200's and I know these engines quite well.
 
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